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The SS Mullah School Dresden, “The Imam Institute,” and Islamic anti-Semitism

33

Mufti islam

Much thanks to Roger, who was visiting Dresden, Germany, recently and took an excellent audio tour of sites related to the Jewish Holocaust. He sent me a link to the recordings.

Please listen to the clip concerning an SS school for Mullahs that existed there in 1944, set up by Himmler and Muslim leader Al-Husseini. The recording is about 11 m long.

The Islamic world aligned with The Third Reich, an alliance that has largely been whitewashed from the pages of history. The Nazis were given no such free pass, and shouldn't have been; why has the Islamic alliance with them been ignored?

Many Muslims fought on the German side during World War II. The Wehrmacht had six legions with a Muslim majority and the SS had three Muslim divisions, a brigade and a Waffenbrigade. Each Muslim unit got a mullah as an adviser. In November 1944, an SS mullah school was established in Dresden, founded by Himmler.

Mullah school

http://www.audioscript.net/en/1_05.html Listen to it.

If anyone out there could transcribe, I would be deeply grateful. Please scroll my previous posts on Islam's role in the Shoah.

download mp3-Tracksdownload city mapdeutsch

Particles of resentment
The SS school for mullahs in Dresden and Islamic anti-Semitism

05_Particles_of_resentment.mp3 (11:47 min / 16.20 MB)

Vladimir Jankélévitch: Verzeihen? Frankfurt am Main 2006.

Dan Diner: Der Sarkophag zeigt Risse. Über Israel, Palästina und die Frage eines "neuen Antisemitismus", In: Doron Rabinovici, Ulrich Spreck, Natan Sznaider (Hg.): Neuer Antisemitismus? Eine globale Debatte, 2004.

Robert Wistrich: Der alte Antisemitismus in neuem Gewand, In: Doron Rabinovici, Ulrich Spreck, Natan Sznaider (Hg.): Neuer Antisemitismus? Eine globale Debatte, 2004.

Klaus Faber, Julius H. Schoeps, Sacha Stawski (Hg.): Neu-alter Judenhass. Antisemitismus, arabisch-israelischer Konflikt und europäische Politik, 2006.

Matthias Küntzel: Islamischer Antisemitismus und deutsche Politik, Berlin 2007.

Matthias Küntzel: Von Zeesen bis Beirut. Von Zeesen bis Beirut. In: Jungle World 43/2004, http://www.jungle-world.com/artikel/2004/43/13941.html.

Titus Lenk: Die SS-Mullah-Schule und die Arbeitsgemeinschaft Turkestan in Dresden. Die SS-Mullah-Schule und die Arbeitsgemeinschaft Turkestan in Dresden. http://www.shoa.de/zweiter-weltkrieg/die-deutsche-wehrmacht-im-krieg/611-die-ss-mullah-schule-und-die-arbeitsgemeinschaft-turkestan-in-dresden.html.

Heike Ehrlich, Kathrin Krahl: Musterung einer Kollaboration. Muslimische Kriegsgefangene aus der Sowjetunion und die Dresdner SS-Mullah-Schule. In iz3w, Nr. 316, 2010.

UPDATE: Thnak to Her Royal Whyness:

http://www.shoa.de/zweiter-weltkrieg/die-deutsche-wehrmacht-im-krieg/611-die-ss-mullah-schule-und-die-arbeitsgemeinschaft-turkestan-in-dresden.html
 
The SS-Mullah School and the Association of Turkestan in Dresden
Posted by:  Titus Steering
 
A short chapter in a strange kind of understanding in Germany, the establishment of institutions for for the training of Islamic chaplain in the Army and the Waffen-SS dar.
During World War II on German side fought for different reasons, many Muslims.  It was often common enemy (communism, Jews) or to escape a pragmatic collaboration and the desire of a prisoner of war marked by deadly famine, the Muslims led to the German side.  However, she is in the motif of "flight" from the camps is still the question why some prisoners of war to the construction and supply units and others reported to the armed units.
 
Ideological whip this alliance was the notorious anti-Semite, Mohammed Amin al-Husseini (1893-1974), who as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem had a certain religious authority.  The Muslims from the Soviet Union (Azerbajan, Crimea and Volga Tatars, North Caucasians, Bashkir, Uzbek and other Central Asian peoples) wer with other members of non-Russian minority peoples of the Soviet Union (Armenians, Georgians, Ukrainians) in the armed forces as may be determined Ostlegionen, in which only Non-Russians were.  They were recruited mainly among Soviet prisoners of war.
 
 
Later, Soviet Muslims also served in the Waffen-SS units, such as 1st Ostmuselmanisches SS regiment with the weapon groups "Idel-Ural", "Turkestan" and "Crimea" that was established in 1943 to model the Ostlegiionen.  By war's end, there was next to several majority Muslim SS division, whose members came mostly from the Balkans.  These were the Bosniak '13 Waffen-SS Mountain Division dagger "(named after the Arabic term for a scimitar), the Albanian '21 Weapons Mountain Division of the SS Skanderberg "and the Albanian" 23 Weapons Mountain Division of SS Kama", but did not have stock.  Furthermore, there was an "Arab Legion", which was in January 1942 formed with the approval of Hitler of British prisoners of war and probably of 6,000 Arab and North African Muslims was (Anton Maegerle/Herbert Schiedel), and there were even smaller Arab SS units.  Most Muslim SS units but came from the Balkans.  On 10/02/1943 Himmler allowed the establishment of a Waffen-SS unit of Muslims from the Balkans.
 
Overall, there was the German Wehrmacht six majority Muslim legions, and the SS three divisions, a brigade and a weapons Association (MS Abdullah:35) with a majority Muslim members.  At least from the Waffen-SS units serious warcrimes at the "anti-partisan warfare in the Balkans are know.  Particularly in eastern Bosnia, the area of origin of most hand-divisional troop members, the unit set up in 1943/44 of "Operation Lightening Orb" a bloodbath (W. Oschlies).
 
The officers of the Muslim units were mostly so-called "ethnic German", that members of German-speaking minorities.  From the SS Headquarters was the work of imams in the individual battalions approved and confirmed compliance with the Islamic dietary laws.  Even the observance of Muslim funeral rites has been granted (J. Hoffman: 139).  Each unit was also a young Muslim Mufti as a spiritual adviser.  Muslim chaplains are often trained but had yet to come.
 
This happened in June 1944 in 14-day later, 3- to 4-week Imam or Mullah courses at the Islamic Studies Bertold Spuler (1911-1990) at the Islamic Institute of the University of Göttingen (J. Hoffman: 139).  In the six courses each, held 30-40 Legionnaires in Muslim theological knowledge and ritualism of Islam were taught.  Language of instruction was mainly Turkish (J. Hoffmann: 140) in addition to religious content and often had some little existing knowledge of Arabic can be improved.  It often cme from these courses on inter-religious and inter-ethnic conflicts and tensions.  Spuler therefore recommended, for example, the separation of Shiites and Sunnis (P. Heine: 234).  In 1944, schools for the training set up by Muslim military chaplain.
 
It speaks for the ideological blindness of the Nazis that were also takenin the near defeat of yet tackled such projects.  On the other hand, this time from a human plight out against the "Aryan" elite understanding just recruited Muslims.   Politically, it was for their home regions very different schedules, the Bosnian Muslims remain under the rule of the croatian Ustasha government (W. Oschlies), there was the fantastic plans for Central Asia of an independent United Turkestan (P. Heine: 236; J. Hoffmann: 107).  With the approach of the front lines in Germany, such considerations were increasingly unlikely, but apparently also planned to sell units was behind the line to fan in the rear under the non-Russian population revolts.  In the capital, Berlin, meanwhile, has hosted several national governments emigration, such as the  "unit Nationalturkestanische Committee (NTEK).
 
Chairman of the NTEK 1942-1945 was bornin 1905 in Bukhara Weli Khajum Khan.  He introduced, sponsored by the influential ideologues Rosenberg, in August 1942 the committee together.  Written NTEK organ was the magazine "National Turestan", which initially has a circulation of 15,000 and most recently in a print run of 80,000 copies was published (FV Seidel:  278).  After the war came "National Turkestan" way back as a journal of the surviving Muslim Nazi collaborators from Central Asia government.
 
In addition to an on 21.04.1944 in Guben opened Imam School (Mufti papers:212.213), it was in November 1944 in Dresden, one at the behest of the Nazi leader and chief Heinrich Himmler founded SS Mullah school especially for so-called "Russia Turks", ie Muslims the territory of the USSR, who served in the SS (J. Hoffmann: 142).  These were organized specifically in the "eastern Turkey Federation weapons" and "weapons Caucausian organization " within the SS.
 
Based on this device was  a pre-existing "Association eV Turkestan".  This working group was established in January 1944 in the framework of the "German Oriental Society (DMG) was founded.  The Association had two addresses, one in Berlin and one in Dresden, and more specifically on Taschenberg 3 Dresden in the inner city.
 
The headquarters of the Association in the middle of the city is expected from the bombing of Dresden on 13th February 1945 have been affected severely.
 
Managing Director of the Dresden office of the Association was a certain Dr. Korad Schlons (Bl. Brentjes:157).  Equipped with the Association of stolen goods (eg books) from Riga, Tartu (Estonia), Holland or Paris (B.l Brentjes: 158) was.   The working group was divided into nine working areas (geography and transport, soil science and geology, climatology and agriculture, folklore, folk art, Islam, folklore, mediciine, lieterature), which were led by eight professors and a doctor.  Some of these should have been according to the researchers Burchard Brentjes earlier foreign agents.
 
As part of the military service of the Humanities, the AG was primarliy military and political purposes, such as the geographic support the Air Force (H. Kißmehl: 150).  The  objectives of the founding of this institution can also be recognized that, although officially the DMG has been assigned, but actually as the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) – Office was VI group G associated research institute (H. Kißmehl: 145), which was also funded by the R
SHA (B. Brentjes: 157).  The RSHA Amt VI was responsible for espionage abroad, so was the "Security Service (SD) of actually lead actor (B. Brentjes: 153/54) at the end of 1943, establishing the already planned facilites (B. Brentjes: 154).  For the direct instructions of teh SD DMG was the AG under the established "for the > AG thus <a neutral appearance public to the "as the former SS-Sturmbannführer Dr. Rainer Olzscha to Walter Schellenberg, head the Foreign Intelligence Service of the RSHA, writes (to B. Brentjes: 154).  Among the employees in the group and from Turkestan dating Ostlegionen or members of the Waffen SS and SD or prisoner of war camps.  This was aware of camouflage dressed in civil (as Brentjes: 155).  Chaplain of the Muslim SS units were formed since March 1944 by the "Association of Turkestan" in  Dresden was founded and its affliated School for the training of mullahs for turkotataischen and Caucasian volunteer untis of the SS "(MS Abdullah: 35) .  The Mullah school was officially opened until six months later, on 11.25.1944 with an address by the SS officer Walter Schellenberg.  thanked by telegram from Dresden, the aforementioned Grand Mufti Hussein at 27.11.  Himmler:
"At the opening of the Imam of the Easter Turks Institute in Dresden, for their keen interest inthe Islamic-German cooperation is to be regarded as another character.  I submit to you the sincere thanks and best wishes of the Muslims).  [spelling in the original] "(Mufti papers:229
 
The training of Muslim religious defense should feed into the spiritual authoritiees in the home countries of the Muslim units pro-German.  Unlike the courses in Göttingen was in Dresden for Shiites and Sunnis a unified educational program, while the aforementioned Spuler protested (J. Hoffmann:  142).  A possible indicator of the involved in the founding of the school Turkestan AG can also be found in the policies of the Nazis Jewish chronicler Victor Klemperer.  Klemperer notes in his diary entry of his 12th  November 1944:
"With her, now lives a comer of interpreter of the Crimea, which is now at the Lorraine border road 2 home Moslem group [obviously Crimean Tatars], the mysterious, service has done or still does. "
 
The Lorraine was then Route 2 in Dresden to the so-called "Jewish houses".  Houses of former Jewish owners had to live where most of the remaining Jews packed together.  Maybe it is a part of the above-mentioned working group or toan independent Crimean Tatar grop in the Waffen SS or Wehrmacht.  From a total of 200,000 living on the Crimean Tatars at least 20,000 volunteers served in "Tatar formations" on the German side (J. Hoffmann: 39-50).  In 1944 an attempt ws evacuated from (Crimean) Tatars in Hungary to form a mountain brigade of the Waffen-SS (J. Hoffman: 50).  The school itself is likely to have survived the massive bombing in February, not unscathed.  In the subsequent chaos in any case is likely not a meaningful education for the approximately 50 students (B. Brentjes: 157) have taken
place anymore.  Against the war in any case the labor community fled with 70 relatives from the approaching front and met on 02/23/1945 in White Rock.   Prominent members such as the medical officer and SS Lieutenant Olzscha Rainer, who headed the SS Skin Official D workspace voluntary associations, went into U.S. custody.   Whether the consorium members as other Nazi scientists  were soon in the beginning of the cold war on the Allied side use is uncertain.
 
Dresden was not, moreover, theonly city in the Saxony, the Grand Mufti was staying longer.   He lived because of the bomb threat in Berlin in the summer of 1944 to April 1945 as a personal guest of Hitler along with his staff of about 60 Arabs (FV Seidel: 266) in the small spa town of eastern Saxony Oybin.  After the war, fled the Muslims who had fought during the Second World War on the German side as far as possible in the zones of the Western Allies.  Her they were the group of so-called Muslim refugees and settled down here, especially in the south and particularly in Swiss francs, or were settled there.
 
This group organized itself in founded in 1951 in Munich "Spiritual Administration of Muslim refugees in the Federal Republic of Germany", a type of care association for former members of the Wehrmacht Muslim faith.  The church adminstration organized in Nuremberg, Neu-Ulm, Augsburg, Pforzheim, Erlangen, Bamberg, Waldkrailburg, Schwabach, Forchheim,  Dieburg and Osnabruck religious education for Muslim children.  For Nuremberg and Munich, there were also two imams.  The body of the spiritual administration was the magazine "Al-Muhajiround (The Refugees).  In contrast to later Muslim groups, this almost completely assimilated into the majority population.
 
Author: Titus Lenk

UPDATE: Huge props to Her Royal Whyness:

Transcript for Particles of Resentment
The SS mullah school in Dresden and Islamic Antisemitism

During the second world war, the waffen SS developed from an ideological and military unit made up exclusively of German soldiers into a multi-ethnic army.   Many Muslims fought on the German side during World War II for a variety of reasons.  Often, it was a common conception of who the enemy was, or there were more pragmatic forms of collaboration that led  Muslims to join the Wehrmacht or the SS.  All together the Wehrmacht had six legions with the Muslim majority, while the SS had three divisions, a brigade and a Waffen-Verband or mixed unit whose members were for the most part Muslims.   The Muslims fighting in the so called Eastern legions of the Wehrmacht included Azerbajanis, Crimean and Volga Tartars, North Caucasions, Bashkiris and Uzbeks.  They were recruited mainly from Soviet prisoners of war.
Serious war crimes are known to have been committed by the Muslim Bosnian Waffen SS units during the so-called partisan combat in the Balkans.
SS headquarters permitted the involvement of  imams, the Islamic prayer leaders in the individual battalions and promised that Islamic dietary rules would be respected.  Compliance with Muslim funeral rights was also granted.  As a result, each Muslim unit got a mullah, an Islamic preacher or clergyman as an advisor.
As a rule, however, the Muslim Army clergymen had to be trained first.  As a result, in November, 1944 an SS mullah school was founded in Dresden especially for Muslims from the area of the USSR.  Within the SS, they were organized into an East Turkish and a Caucasion Waffen-Verband.
==========================================
01:52   The two authors of the feature about the SS mullah school are in conversation.  They are engaged in research about the cooperation between Muslims and the National Socialists and about today's Islamic anti-semitism.
==========================================
02:10 (sound of typing) (sigh) "I can't get any further.  I just can't find any sources on the SS Mullah school in Dresden apart from this article at Shoa.de (see link below) there isn't any literature on the SS mullah school in Dresden .  No films or photographic material, no autobiographical reports.  It's as if it never existed.
========================================
02:38  At least this article says there was a mullah school in Dresden, from November 1944.  It was founded on the initiative of SS leader Heinrich Himmler.  So-called Russian Turks were trained there before going on to serve in the SS.  The institution was based on the association Arbeitsgemeinschaft Turkestanifal.  The Arbeitsgemeinschaft Turkestanifal had two addresses, one in Berlin and one in Taschenberg 3 in Dresden City Center.
==========================================
03:11
You could argue about the effect of an SS mullah school for so-called Russian Turks founded at the end of 1944.  It seems to me that radio shortwave stations broadcasting for instance from a place called Zeesen to the south of Berlin were more important and influential.  Political scientist and publicist, Matthias Küntzel writes, " it broadcast a daily relic language program to the Middle East since 1939.  No other station enjoyed a greater degree of popularity than this Nazi station broadcast from Zeesen between 1939 and 1945.  Here anti-semetic tirades were interspersed with quotes from the qur'an and Arab music.  Program highlights at Radio Zeesen included calls for jihad by the most popular figure in the Arab Islamic world of the time, the mufti of Jerusalem – Amin el-Husseini who lived in Berlin between 1941 and 1945.  Nobody promoted hatred of the Jews among Muslims more successfully than him and influenced the early history of the Middle East conflict at the same time
."
============================================
4:18  The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.  Okay.  He is mentioned in connection with the Dresden SS mullah school.  The known facts are very limited, however.  The existence of the school is proven by two sources. Parallel to a diary entry of Victor Klemperer, there's also a quote by Titus Lenke from a telegram from which Grand Mufti Amin el-Husseini thanks Himmler for the foundation of the SS mullah school on the 27th of November in 1944.  I quote:  "On the occassion of the opening of the Imam Institute of the Eastern Turks in Dresden another sign for your great interest in Islamic-German cooperation, I would like to express the sincere gratitude and best regards of the Muslims."
===========================================
5:04   Matthias Küntzel writes here that this form of cooperation between National Socialists and Muslims had already started as early as 1937.  The trigger was the suggestion made by the British Peel Commission to divide the Palestinian Mandate Territory into a small Jewish state and a larger Muslim Arab state.  He goes on to write that this plan immediately led to protest by the National Socialists.  They postulated, ' the formation of a Jewish state is not in the German interest but rather a strengthening of Arabism as a counter balance to the increasing power of Judaism. ' 
===========================================
5:44  What did Heinrich Himmler and Grand Mufti Amin el-Husseini have to do with each other?  Oh, here, Küntzel again.  "Heinrich Himmler enthused about the ideological bond between National Socialism and Islam. "   He also introduced  the term, "Muselgermanen" and el-Husseini pointed out the ideological similarities between Muslims and Germans.  These were said to include obedience and discipline, the will to battle, and the honor of falling in battle, community, family and offspring, the glorification of labor and creating, and relations to the Jews.  The Mufti declared, 'in fighting Judaism, Islam and the Nazis are coming very close to one another.'
=============================================
6:35  But, things weren't always like that.  While Christian anti-semitism is characterized by the idea of a supposed Jewish threat,  Jews in the Islamic world are treated with nothing worse than condescension.  In the eyes of the Muslims, the idea of the Jews of all people could possibly become a danger to them or to the world appeared absurd.
===============================================
6:57  Hmmmm.   Well, that would mean that the racist antisemitism and above all the hallucination of a Jewish World conspiracy were of European origin and were exported from Europe to the Arab world. 
===============================================
07:10  Well today, more than sixty years later we have to deal with a dangerous situation which is described by anti-semitism researcher Robert Wistrich as follows:  "there is a culture of hate which
has in the meantime come to pervade everything – books, periodicals, newspapers, sermons, video cassette, the internet, radio and television throughout the entire Arab Middle East.  Contentious images of Jews and Israelis can be found everywhere in political public life in Islam.  They combined myths of ritual murder from midieval Europe with the conspiracy theories of the Nazis and slanderous Islamic quotations about Jews as being ' sons of monkeys and donkeys'. 
==============================================
07:58  Despite all this one can still read here and there that the solution to the Middle East conflict might possibly weaken anti-semitism in the neighboring  states. =================================================
8:0
7  Yes, that is one line of speculation but hatred against Jews goes way beyond a territorial conflict between Israelis and Palestinians.  Isn't this antisemitism driven by another motive?
As Robert Wistrich writes: " a delusional idea that history is dominated by the wicked intrigues of the Jewish people and stories too absurd to be believed and spread.
===================================================
8:34  And another popular part of the picture is  that America is in Jewish hands.  Hmmm.  To continue with Robert Wistrich:  "the jihad for the world wide liberation of the Muslims from oppression and injustice is therefore at the same time to be seen as both an anti-Jewish and an anti-American struggle."  And somewhere else, Wistrich describes the " antisemitic hysteria of the Islamists as paranoid distrust against the modern secular civilization. " 
==================================================
9:06 Yeah.   However, what is also interesting is that a special understanding for the anti-semitism in Arab countries is being shown in Germany today.  Again,  Matthias Küntzel writes, "the distinctively unconcerned attitude towards the Islamists hatred of the Jews is significant for the German discourse.  While antisemitism articulated in German public provokes indignation, the same antisemitism, when articulated by Muslims is seen as a response to the Middle East conflict and does trivialize,  orcompletely ignored."
==================================================
9:41  Aha.  And the silence about Islamic antisemitism also includes staying silent about it's origins and national socialism. 
=================================================
9:48  Keeping quiet is very popular here.  On the other hand, rumor mongering is also very popular.  One common trend in the Arab world is the equation of Israeli politics with the National Socialist crimes committed against the Jews.
================================================
10:03  And can such comparisons be heard over and over again in Germany too?  Terms such as 'war of aggression', 'war of annhilation', 'total war' and 'Palestinian gettos'.  In my opinion, the Nazi comparisons offer a welcome possibility to come to terms with the uncomfortable German history.
If one makes the descendants of the survivors of the Holocaust into perpetrators today, it comes as a comfortable form of relief for the German descendants because the level of guilt can be reduced if the former victims are today cast  in the role of perpetrators.
==================================================
10:36  The rejection of guilt and longing for relief has many faces.  Some thought it a good idea to compare Sharon with Hitler and others cannot stop persistently claiming that racism in Israel still has a magnanimous enough to allow Israel it's right to it's existence.  Just a second.  Here, I marked a passage that points to this doubtful concession.  From the essay, "Forgiveness" by Vladimir Jankélévitch,[1967: Le pardon, (tr. into English as Forgiveness by Andrew Kelley, 2005)] "Antisemitism is a great offence against human beings in general.  The Jews were persecuted because it was them and not at all because of their opinions or their faith.  It was existence itself that was denied them.  They were not reproached for professing this or that.  They were reproached for being.  To a certain degree, this refusal extends even today to the existence of the State of Israel.  It is an immense concession and unmeritted gift and belief conferred on Israel and according it the r
ight to exist.  As a fact, recognition is an elementary and vital right that every human being ought to respect in every other human being.  And this without negotiations of any kind without any claim to gratitude.

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  • roger

    Matthias Kuntzel has written a recent book about Islamic antisemitism, unfortunately not yet available in English. However, he seems to have got something very wrong. It is his view that Muslim Arabs appropriated Jew hatred from the Nazis,inheriting their deranged and irrational world Jewish conspiracy theories from the Germans. For anyone with a knowledge of Islam, this is patently untrue. Islamic antisemitism is there to see in the Koran, the Hadith and in Mohammed’s murderous behaviour and teachings. Muslim Jew hatred has existed for 1400 years, running parallel with European Christian antisemitism. Muslims were not indoctrinated by the Nazis. They collaborated with them because they shared the same views. It is not the case that this collaboration iniated a wave of Islamic antisemitism. It already existed. It is true though that the antisemitic imagery found in cartoons in the Arab media is influenced by Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda and caricatures such as was evident in Der Sturmer. But the hate was already there, rooted in Islamic ideology.

  • Pamela, I passed it along to a German friend of mine, I’ll post here with a translation if I get one before you do.

  • Mitch

    I don’t think it needs a “translation” – rather it needs someone to “transcribe” it (i.e. listen to it and type the text that you hear).
    It is in English already but spoken by a German with a pretty heavy accent.

  • dented

    I can’t even get to hear it. Won’t work for me, otherwise I would have tried to transcribe it for you. Will keep trying to open it.

  • dented

    It is working now.

  • Matthias Künntzel means that the Jew hatred was transfered from the Nazis to the Middle East
    When one read the ahadith Sahih everyone knows that the Jew hatred is IN Islam & Muhammad
    http://newstime.co.nz/muhammad-the-first-nazi-ss-man.html

  • dented

    “Particles of resentment – The SS school for mullahs in Dresden and Islamic anti-Semitism”
    This audio isn’t working (the other one is)

  • But ve all love ze german accent, don’t ve? Isn’t it vonterfull? LOL!

  • Telly

    It’s not so simple when you consider that nazi-type anti-Semitism pre-existed the founding of the nazi party by at least one thousand years.
    When anti-Semitic groups get together, it’s only natural that they exchange beliefs and imagery to reenforce their shared hatred.
    This is why some of the anti-Semitic imagery being trafficked in the Arab world has it origin in Central and Eastern Europe. It doesn’t mean that the nazis, or the czarists before them invented anti-Semitism.

  • Frank

    “The Islamic world aligned with The Third Reich, an alliance that has largely been whitewashed from the pages of history. The Nazis were given no such free pass, and shouldn’t have been; why has the Islamic alliance with them been ignored?”-Pamela
    It’s ironic that people who lived in the WW2 era knew, as we do not know now, that there was a Muslim-Nazi alliance against the West and Russia. Stalin was aware of the alliance. Just after the war ended (5/8/1945) he singled out “the Great Russians” (read non-Muslim Slavs) for bringing victory, deliberately complimenting them for saving “Mother Russia.” (Churchill said “the Russians tore the guts out” of the Nazi armies.)
    The Muslims in Chechnya and elsewhere were not singled out by Stalin for such pointed compliments-that’s for sure. Stalin was someone who weighed his words very carefully.
    The end of the war saw a divided Europe and there was great fear in the US that all Europe would fall into the Soviet zone. The Nazi-Muslim alliance was buried by Cold War concerns and the need for oil by the US, Western Europe and Japan. Nazis and Muslims were made “allies” by the West (while Muslims were sought as allies in the Mideast by the former USSR).
    The end of the Cold War has brought a renewal of unfinished business from WW2. The center of this Jew-hating totalitarian ideology that fueled the Nazi-Muslim alliance is not Berlin anymore. It’s Mecca. The Nazi-Muslim equation has been reversed. Now Muslims lead and direct the attacks against the West and Russia. (Nazis are now the “auxiliary” divisions.)
    Since the Cold War ended in roughly 1990 we appear to be in Act II of WW2, with the theater shifting to the Mideast. The second World War is not over, and it can still be lost, and there could even be another Jewish Holocaust-this time in the Mideast.
    Hither and the Muffy (aka Mufti) are not dead yet.

  • Frank

    “It is his view that Muslim Arabs appropriated Jew hatred from the Nazis,inheriting their deranged and irrational world Jewish conspiracy theories from the Germans. For anyone with a knowledge of Islam, this is patently untrue.”-roger
    It’s part of the Left’s nutty-narrative that has Arabs as “victims” of Western colonialism after the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1. It’s as if Jew-hating was a post WW1 phenomena in the Mideast. Actually it goes back to Moe and is institutionalized in the Qu’ran.
    The West has a history of antisemitism (America, for an assortment of reasons, has been given mercy from Gd re the Jew-hating madness), and Christ has been used by State and political interests in Europe to further a Jew-hating agenda. But there is nothing in the teachings of Jesus that recommend Jew-hating. Jesus was Jewish, his followers were Jewish, and the Romans put a sign over his cross in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek that said “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews” (that’s Jew-hating on an Islamic-Nazi scale. Maybe the Romans were Muslims?).
    I was brought up Catholic and know that it is Catholic teaching that the Jewish people have a “special covenant” with Gd. (I think that’s also true for most other Christian groups.) Islam’s antisemitism is part of its creed. Only the “tolerance” folks are in la-la land re that. The Qu’ran is a “religious” Mein Kampf.

  • Frank

    BTW-I think the Gospels are part history and part hearsay. I think there probably were a lot of gospels and they got narrowed down. I think the sign over Jesus’ head is history because it has no agenda for being there. On other things, such as the violence at the arrest of Jesus, where he puts a guy’s cut-off ear back on is embellishment-hearsay.
    But I think there was some kind of violence and Jesus did quell it by warning that those who live by the sword died by the sword. In any case, Jesus was not a Moe.
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/live_by_the_sword,_die_by_the_sword
    “King James Version of the Bible, Gospel of Matthew, 26:52
    Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.”

  • Frank

    I meant the last post re the gospels made to “telly” to be in reply to Roger, and this post to Frank is meant to be a reply to Telly and roger.

  • roger

    Indeed, what the Nazis were to politics, Islam is to religion.

  • Choi

    I wonder where Husseini was the night Dresden was FIREBOMBED?

  • HRW

    Transcript for Particles of Resentment
    The SS mullah school in Dresden and Islamic Antisemitism

    During the second world war, the waffen SS developed from an ideological and military unit made up exclusively of German soldiers into a multi-ethnic army. Many Muslims fought on the German side during World War II for a variety of reasons. Often, it was a common conception of who the enemy was, or there were more pragmatic forms of collaboration that led Muslims to join the Wehrmacht or the SS. All together the Wehrmacht had six legions with the Muslim majority, while the SS had three divisions, a brigade and a Waffen-Verband or mixed unit whose members were for the most part Muslims. The Muslims fighting in the so called Eastern legions of the Wehrmacht included Azerbajanis, Crimean and Volga Tartars, North Caucasions, Bashkiris and Uzbeks. They were recruited mainly from Soviet prisoners of war.
    Serious war crimes are known to have been committed by the Muslim Bosnian Waffen SS units during the so-called partisan combat in the Balkans.
    SS headquarters permitted the involvement of imams, the Islamic prayer leaders in the individual battalions and promised that Islamic dietary rules would be respected. Compliance with Muslim funeral rights was also granted. As a result, each Muslim unit got a mullah, an Islamic preacher or clergyman as an advisor.
    As a rule, however, the Muslim Army clergymen had to be trained first. As a result, in November, 1944 an SS mullah school was founded in Dresden especially for Muslims from the area of the USSR. Within the SS, they were organized into an East Turkish and a Caucasion Waffen-Verband.

    ==========================================
    01:52 The two authors of the feature about the SS mullah school are in conversation. They are engaged in research about the cooperation between Muslims and the National Socialists and about today’s Islamic anti-semitism.
    ==========================================
    02:10 (sound of typing) (sigh) “I can’t get any further. I just can’t find any sources on the SS Mullah school in Dresden apart from this article at Shoa.de (see link below) there isn’t any literature on the SS mullah school in Dresden . No films or photographic material, no autobiographical reports. It’s as if it never existed.
    ========================================
    02:38 At least this article says there was a mullah school in Dresden, from November 1944. It was founded on the initiative of SS leader Heinrich Himmler. So-called Russian Turks were trained there before going on to serve in the SS. The institution was based on the association Arbeitsgemeinschaft Turkestanifal. The Arbeitsgemeinschaft Turkestanifal had two addresses, one in Berlin and one in Taschenberg 3 in Dresden City Center.
    ==========================================
    03:11
    You could argue about the effect of an SS mullah school for so-called Russian Turks founded at the end of 1944. It seems to me that radio shortwave stations broadcasting for instance from a place called Zeesen to the south of Berlin were more important and influential. Political scientist and publicist, Matthias Küntzel writes, ” it broadcast a daily relic language program to the Middle East since 1939. No other station enjoyed a greater degree of popularity than this Nazi station broadcast from Zeesen between 1939 and 1945. Here anti-semetic tirades were interspersed with quotes from the qur’an and Arab music. Program highlights at Radio Zeesen included calls for jihad by the most popular figure in the Arab Islamic world of the time, the mufti of Jerusalem – Amin el-Husseini who lived in Berlin between 1941 and 1945. Nobody promoted hatred of the Jews among Muslims more successfully than him and influenced the early history of the Middle East conflict at the same time.”
    ============================================
    4:18 The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Okay. He is mentioned in connection with the Dresden SS mullah school. The known facts are very limited, however. The existence of the school is proven by two sources. Parallel to a diary entry of Victor Klemperer, there’s also a quote by Titus Lenke from a telegram from which Grand Mufti Amin el-Husseini thanks Himmler for the foundation of the SS mullah school on the 27th of November in 1944. I quote: “On the occassion of the opening of the Imam Institute of the Eastern Turks in Dresden another sign for your great interest in Islamic-German cooperation, I would like to express the sincere gratitude and best regards of the Muslims.”
    ===========================================
    5:04 Matthias Küntzel writes here that this form of cooperation between National Socialists and Muslims had already started as early as 1937. The trigger was the suggestion made by the British Peel Commission to divide the Palestinian Mandate Territory into a small Jewish state and a larger Muslim Arab state. He goes on to write that this plan immediately led to protest by the National Socialists. They postulated, ‘ the formation of a Jewish state is not in the German interest but rather a strengthening of Arabism as a counter balance to the increasing power of Judaism. ‘
    ===========================================
    5:44 What did Heinrich Himmler and Grand Mufti Amin el-Husseini have to do with each other? Oh, here, Küntzel again. “Heinrich Himmler enthused about the ideological bond between National Socialism and Islam. ” He also introduced the term, “Muselgermanen” and el-Husseini pointed out the ideological similarities between Muslims and Germans. These were said to include obedience and discipline, the will to battle, and the honor of falling in battle, community, family and offspring, the glorification of labor and creating, and relations to the Jews. The Mufti declared, ‘in fighting Judaism, Islam and the Nazis are coming very close to one another.’
    =============================================
    6:35 But, things weren’t always like that. While Christian anti-semitism is characterized by the idea of a supposed Jewish threat, Jews in the Islamic world are treated with nothing worse than condescension. In the eyes of the Muslims, the idea of the Jews of all people could possibly become a danger to them or to the world appeared absurd.
    ===============================================
    6:57 Hmmmm. Well, that would mean that the racist antisemitism and above all the hallucination of a Jewish World conspiracy were of European origin and were exported from Europe to the Arab world.
    ===============================================
    07:10 Well today, more than sixty years later we have to deal with a dangerous situation which is described by anti-semitism researcher Robert Wistrich as follows: “there is a culture of hate which
    has in the meantime come to pervade everything – books, periodicals, newspapers, sermons, video cassette, the internet, radio and television throughout the entire Arab Middle East. Contentious images of Jews and Israelis can be found everywhere in political public life in Islam. They combined myths of ritual murder from midieval Europe with the conspiracy theories of the Nazis and slanderous Islamic quotations about Jews as being ‘ sons of monkeys and donkeys’.

    ==============================================
    07:58 Despite all this one can still read here and there that the solution to the Middle East conflict might possibly weaken anti-semitism in the neighboring states. =================================================
    8:07 Yes, that is one line of speculation but hatred against Jews goes way beyond a territorial conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. Isn’t this antisemitism driven by another motive?
    As Robert Wistrich writes: ” a delusional idea that history is dominated by the wicked intrigues of the Jewish people and stories too absurd to be believed and spread.
    ===================================================
    8:34 And another popular part of the picture is that America is in Jewish hands. Hmmm. To continue with Robert Wistrich: “the jihad for the world wide liberation of the Muslims from oppression and injustice is therefore at the same time to be seen as both an anti-Jewish and an anti-American struggle.” And somewhere else, Wistrich describes the ” antisemitic hysteria of the Islamists as paranoid distrust against the modern secular civilization. ”
    ==================================================
    9:06 Yeah. However, what is also interesting is that a special understanding for the anti-semitism in Arab countries is being shown in Germany today. Again, Matthias Küntzel writes, “the distinctively unconcerned attitude towards the Islamists hatred of the Jews is significant for the German discourse. While antisemitism articulated in German public provokes indignation, the same antisemitism, when articulated by Muslims is seen as a response to the Middle East conflict and does trivialize, orcompletely ignored.”
    ==================================================
    9:41 Aha. And the silence about Islamic antisemitism also includes staying silent about it’s origins and national socialism.
    =================================================
    9:48 Keeping quiet is very popular here. On the other hand, rumor mongering is also very popular. One common trend in the Arab world is the equation of Israeli politics with the National Socialist crimes committed against the Jews.
    ================================================
    10:03 And can such comparisons be heard over and over again in Germany too? Terms such as ‘war of aggression’, ‘war of annhilation’, ‘total war’ and ‘Palestinian gettos’. In my opinion, the Nazi comparisons offer a welcome possibility to come to terms with the uncomfortable German history.
    If one makes the descendants of the survivors of the Holocaust into perpetrators today, it comes as a comfortable form of relief for the German descendants because the level of guilt can be reduced if the former victims are today cast in the role of perpetrators.
    ==================================================
    10:36 The rejection of guilt and longing for relief has many faces. Some thought it a good idea to compare Sharon with Hitler and others cannot stop persistently claiming that racism in Israel still has a magnanimous enough to allow Israel it’s right to it’s existence. Just a second. Here, I marked a passage that points to this doubtful concession. From the essay, “Forgiveness” by Vladimir Jankélévitch,[1967: Le pardon, (tr. into English as Forgiveness by Andrew Kelley, 2005)] “Antisemitism is a great offence against human beings in general. The Jews were persecuted because it was them and not at all because of their opinions or their faith. It was existence itself that was denied them. They were not reproached for professing this or that. They were reproached for being. To a certain degree, this refusal extends even today to the existence of the State of Israel. It is an immense concession and unmeritted gift and belief conferred on Israel and according it the right to exist. As a fact, recognition is an elementary and vital right that every human being ought to respect in every other human being. And this without negotiations of any kind without any claim to gratitude.

  • Richard 2

    You are right, and from what I have read the reason Hitler hated the Jews so much is because his mother had an affair with a Jewish postman. When he needed something to bind the German people to the Nazi government he used the pre-existing anti-Semitism.

  • Richard 2

    You got that right, and even though communism collapsed in the Soviet Union we are facing a resurgent Russia with a hatred and rivalry of the US. Welcome to the past, it is our future.

  • tfb

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/birds-of-a-feather/
    DrKate ties in today’s islamic threat with the remnants of nazism, in our midst
    they never went away

  • Comparing Islam with Nazism could lead to Naziphobia

  • tfb

    We should start a religion and adopt the tenets of islam except insert “muslim” where they put infidel, kuffir, harbi, jew, etc…then seek equal protection (leave out the pervo stuff though)

  • Frank

    Nazism is religion by another name, and Islam is a political system by another name. They mirror each other. Hitler said that.
    Hitler said that Islam was perfectly suited to Nazism and called Christianity “the Jewish Christ creed with its pity ethics.” Hitler said that if the Arabs had successfully beaten the French in 732 that Islam would have entered Germany and that the Germans would have had a perfect “religion” to justify their conquest and extermination of inferior peoples. Himmler said the same thing (all in private, of course).
    Hitler did not consider the Arabs an inferior people, but said they were not suited to the icy climate of North Europe, as were the Germans. He and the Muffy (aka Mufti) were two Jew-hating totalitarians. It was a marriage made in hell.
    Meanwhile, in the “great patriotic war” to defend “Mother Russia,” the Russians certainly did not get aid and comfort from Muslims. They faced them and the Germans in the SS divisions. They had to expel many to Siberia. And the West had plenty of problems in Iraq and Iran and it kept Churchill up at night. In fact, Winston Churchill once said that the Mideast kept him awake at night during WW2 until Rommel was cleared from North Africa in 1943. The Nazis-Muslims came close to winning the war in Act I of WW2.
    We appear to be in Act II since the collapse of the USSR.
    Eventually, even the “tolerance” folks will leave la-la land and grasp what Moe and Co. really represent. Moe is not a Jesus-unless Jesus cut peoples’ heads off and killed Jews. The idea of comparing Jesus to Moe is absurd beyond words. (And I say that as a man who is skeptical re beliefs-Christianity or otherwise.)

  • Barbara

    Well, well the Nazis and Muslims are two peas in a pod. They are both full of violent stupidity and hatred of anything truly godly. . . including the people of God. They are two gangs of thugs teaming up for their crime spree.
    It is more like Hitler learned his Jew hatred from the Muslims. He went to their lands like in Palestine to see how they went about persectuing them. He took a lot of tips from them. Then as quirky Germans, the Nazis threw in the science experiments and enslavement for work in their industries. Hitler followed Catholicism, which is essentially a pagan mish-mash of world religions under the canopy and auspices of a Christian-like paradigm.
    The swastika itself was taken from the Hindus in Nepal.

  • Frank

    It’s kind of a mystery where Hitler developed the rabid Jew-hating. In John Toland’s biography of him (published 1976) Toland notes that soldiers in Hitler’s unit said Hitler was no more antisemitic than other Germans. The Jew-hating seems to have come after he was gassed and went hysterically blind in 1918 (I think that occurred in August).
    He was at the military hospital in Pasewalk (near Berlin) on November 11, 1918.
    On November 11, 1918 Hitler (Toland’s book opens with this) heard voices calling him to save Germany and suddenly he was no longer blind. Hitler was being treated by a psychiatrist named Forster who was a hypnotist. Forster was a rabid Jew-hater. I have a hunch that he hypnotized Hitler and gave the world a monster. Who knows?
    Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler all hated Christianity and saw Islam (especially Hitler and Himmler) as the go-to religion for justifying extermination of other cultures and peoples. I think that Hitler would have replaced Christianity with Islam as the religion of the Germans if he had won the war. Islam is perfect for making women into breeders of the “master race,” and perfect for justifying war and extermination via Jihad.

  • Frank

    One of the great ironies of history is that Hitler was nominated for the Iron-cross 1st class by the Jewish Capt. of his unit (Hugo Guttman). Guttman eventually fled Germany and moved to New York. For some reason Hitler had his pension mailed to him from the Reich (I think via Switzerland). He did not seem to hate Guttman. Otherwise, Hitler was obsessed with Jews.
    Toland’s 1976 bio of Hitler is one of the best researched books I’ve ever read. He interviewed many from Hitler’s life. (I think Toland was at the “Dog sector” (one of the worst GI meat grinders at Normandy-as seen in the movie Saving Private Ryan). It’s a good thing John Toland survived.

  • Frank

    At Normandy, it appears that various places were assigned animal names so the GIs would not get confused would know where they were supposed to be. So they had a Bird sector, Cat sector etc.-one of the worst was “Dog sector.” That’s where Ryan’s Ranger Unit was in Saving Private Ryan.

  • SumDum Phool

    Wasn’t the all volunteer Bosnian muslim unit the largest unit of the German army?

  • Frank

    Some writer (I forget who) said “the past is never really past.”
    It’s true. There probably is something from the very dawn of man on earth that is still around. Maybe it’s a party hat. Happy New Year.

  • Mac-101

    I beleive that Hitler thanked a leading Muslim Cleric for his knowledgable book he wrote prior to Hitler writin Mein Kampf. He shocked the Inman by his indepth knowledge of his book and his knowledge of Islam! WIsh I could remeber more!
    Also, the German people were told that that the Rothschilds and Warburgs were buying up IB FARBEN and Krupp Steel and the rest of German Industry for pennies on the dollars and destroyin the German economy. It ain’t goin to be pretty if the American people ever awake to the fact that Soros and Goldman Sachs have been rapin our economy.

  • Mac-101

    The German Officer Corp learned first had how to commit genocide by the Turks as they “cleansed” the Armenians and Assarians, Greeks and Jews from Turkey.

  • whatdemocracy

    i believe anti semitism was introduced into the world by islam. there is no mention of anti semitism in civilizations prior to islam. nothing points to anti semitism in europe prior to christianity. i believe the crusaders were impressed by the ferocity of the muslim warriors and therefore allowed themselves to be influenced by islamic thought and jew hatred which then entered into the christian heritage and went on into the european heritage where it still is bubbling away.

  • roger

    It was already there. See The Gospel of St John. See the teachings of St John Crysostomom, an early church father of the 4th century.

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