Pennsylvania Imam Who Threatened Ayaan Hirsi Ali with DEATH FOR APOSTASY Led Interfaith Service After Paris Jihad Attacks

46

Interfaith service? The Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims who participated in this service ought to be made to resign from their posts. And why is Fouad ElBayly still imam of the Islamic Center of Johnstown after calling for the murder of Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Madness.

Fouad-ElBayly2

“Imam Who Threatened Ayaan Hirsi Ali with Death for Apostasy Led Interfaith Service After Paris Attacks,” by Patrick Poole, PJ Media, April 23, 2016 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):

Story continues below advertisement

A Pennsylvania imam who was fired last year by the Bureau of Prisons for his claims that author and Harvard lecturer Ayaan Hirsi Ali deserved to be killed under Islamic law for apostatizing from Islam recently led an interfaith prayer service after the ISIS attacks in Paris last November.

[the_ad id=”77259″]

Fouad ElBayly, the imam at the Islamic Center of Johnstown, led the Nov. 21 prayer event, where he said:

The Islamic Center of Johnstown and all the Muslim communities in our region condemn the evil doing of the people who carried out that terrible attack against innocent people.

This is similar to the statements he made at a March 2002 prayer service for the 9/11 victims on United Flight 93, which crashed in Shanksville, PA, not far from ElBayly’s mosque:

Imam Fouad El Bayly of the Islamic Center of Johnstown and Somerset asked people to be tolerant. He said the Muslim extremists who hijacked the plane also hijacked the Islamic faith.

“In the name of God, in the name of peace, in the name of brotherhood, in the name of mankind, let there be peace,” he said. “We cannot condemn a nation, a religion, for the acts of a few.”

But peace and tolerance are are apparently hard concepts for ElBayly to follow himself.

[the_ad id=”72852″]

Last year he was fired as a Bureau of Prisons chaplain at the Federal Correctional Institute of Cumberland, MD, after it was reported he was hired under a $10,500 February 2014 federal contract despite his 2007 comments calling for the killing of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. He later received another $2,400 contract to teach Islam in the same federal prison in December 2014….

The Truth Must be Told

Your contribution supports independent journalism

Please take a moment to consider this. Now, more than ever, people are reading Geller Report for news they won't get anywhere else. But advertising revenues have all but disappeared. Google Adsense is the online advertising monopoly and they have banned us. Social media giants like Facebook and Twitter have blocked and shadow-banned our accounts. But we won't put up a paywall. Because never has the free world needed independent journalism more.

Everyone who reads our reporting knows the Geller Report covers the news the media won't. We cannot do our ground-breaking report without your support. We must continue to report on the global jihad and the left's war on freedom. Our readers’ contributions make that possible.

Geller Report's independent, investigative journalism takes a lot of time, money and hard work to produce. But we do it because we believe our work is critical in the fight for freedom and because it is your fight, too.

Please contribute here.

or

Make a monthly commitment to support The Geller Report – choose the option that suits you best.

Quick note: We cannot do this without your support. Fact. Our work is made possible by you and only you. We receive no grants, government handouts, or major funding. Tech giants are shutting us down. You know this. Twitter, LinkedIn, Google Adsense, Pinterest permanently banned us. Facebook, Google search et al have shadow-banned, suspended and deleted us from your news feeds. They are disappearing us. But we are here.

Subscribe to Geller Report newsletter here— it’s free and it’s essential NOW when informed decision making and opinion is essential to America's survival. Share our posts on your social channels and with your email contacts. Fight the great fight.

Follow Pamela Geller on Gettr. I am there. click here.

Follow Pamela Geller on
Trump's social media platform, Truth Social. It's open and free.

Remember, YOU make the work possible. If you can, please contribute to Geller Report.

Join The Conversation. Leave a Comment.

We have no tolerance for comments containing violence, racism, profanity, vulgarity, doxing, or discourteous behavior. If a comment is spammy or unhelpful, click the - symbol under the comment to let us know. Thank you for partnering with us to maintain fruitful conversation.

If you would like to join the conversation, but don't have an account, you can sign up for one right here.

If you are having problems leaving a comment, it's likely because you are using an ad blocker, something that break ads, of course, but also breaks the comments section of our site. If you are using an ad blocker, and would like to share your thoughts, please disable your ad blocker. We look forward to seeing your comments below.

0 0 votes
Article Rating
46 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Thomson Figueroa Nancy
Thomson Figueroa Nancy
7 years ago

Absolutely correct…Islam for Dummies and Debate on Facebook and investigateislam.com good sites to know the operation of Islam by the Author of ‘The Deception of Allah” Christian Prince… He studied Islam, knows Arabic and exposes this evil cult and its techniques of lying to advance it..

Yo_Its_Me
Yo_Its_Me
7 years ago

This shows how much of the public is being misled (literally) and duped.

It’s a sad day when someone calling for the death of anyone who verbalizes dissent is considered a role model and “spiritual leader”.

Jonah
Jonah
7 years ago
Reply to  Yo_Its_Me

Willfully duped at this point.

wilypagan
wilypagan
7 years ago

Britain First confronts these thugs:

https://britainfirst.formstack.com/forms/sharia_court

We need an America First movement here. Vote Trump!

roccolore
roccolore
7 years ago

Ku Klux Kair will defend this imam.

Mahou Shoujo
Mahou Shoujo
7 years ago

islam is a demonic chant of hypocrisy, lies, insanity, violence and insanity. So… how do you like what you see of it in even the lame stream media?

Dave Lawson
Dave Lawson
7 years ago

And Obama is busy pushing the Lie about Islam and how great it is in America http://tinyurl.com/j9s3qua

…..But not everyone is buying it ! 🙂

Andrew
Andrew
7 years ago

Not only was he a pedophile, who married a 6 year old, but he was also a slave owner. Muhammed owned 40 slaves.

Dave Quilty
Dave Quilty
7 years ago

Isn’t it a crime to threaten Ayaan Hirsi Ali with Death for Apostasy? Should the AG in Penn make a case out of this? I’ve seen Ayaan Hirsi Ali on a casual walk on a nice street filled with small shops and boutiques ; she finds it necessary to be accompanied by two body guards, these are no idle threats.

soundclick.com/globalfirm
soundclick.com/globalfirm
7 years ago

Following El Bayly’s logic Muhammad must had crucified the “Islamic faith” when he permanently commanded to crucify critics of his sadist, anti Afro racist fantasy law code. Muhammad didn’t just permanently commanded murder & torture but also deception. Muhammadist propaganda must become illegal.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago

the truth about the barbaric words and acts of Islam are suppressed so much .. when they should never be … and so we have this ….

and so the vicious cycle of propaganda and lies … ignorance and self-willed blindness and support of barbaric Islam continues ..

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

Hi, I’ve never spoken to you before but I agree with you about Islam.

That being said, I’m also PL, and I saw your comments. I also saw you being accused of being a domestic terrorist; how do you answer that charge?

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

No .. I am not a terrorist. I am a pacifist … I have only served in the Peace Corps .. twice .. What is PL?
I think all of us are mostly concerned about the lies and propaganda that is allowing the slaughter and rape to increase in frequency. There is an overt denial of Islam being at fault among the elites and the MSM they control.
I actually have made a lot of Muslim friends in my life for whom I have a lot of respect. But Islam itself must be reformed … or … destroyed … For the hardcore Muslims DO intend to kill and conquer western civilization.

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

I’m glad to hear you don’t support Robert Dear style! I thought I should ask you as you were being charged with that kind of shameful activity due to expressing strong prolife beliefs. I completely believe you when you say you are not a terrorist.

What led you to see pacifism as the best way to go?

I apologise for asking but I wanted to hear the person saying they supported that kind of activity before branding them as such.

PL means prolife. I am one myself, and not ashamed of it.

“I think all of us are mostly concerned about the lies and propaganda
that is allowing the slaughter and rape to increase in frequency. There
is an overt denial of Islam being at fault among the elites and the MSM
they control.”

I’m not sure which elites you mean. If you mean the American government then I think that part of the silencing is not only being positive about Islam but also allowing fundie Muslims to work at the immigration departments so they can silence anyone trying to come into the country who is a persecuted minority (Assyrian Christian, atheist, etc). I do agree that criticism of Islam is being silenced and that is of great concern to me.

I read at The Friendly Atheist sometimes, and some of the people writing the articles really bang Islam over the head, hard (though in some cases not as hard as they should), although there are other writers there who will try to excuse it. And that’s a liberal website! Unfortunately there are not many of those good websites around, I am sorry to say.

Being a liberal (I support a number of liberal causes like gay rights, the environment, animal rights, feminism, social safety nets etc – although I believe Obamacare is bad for America), I feel I need to assure you that not all liberals are pro-Islamic; indeed, Islam goes against liberalism as much as conservatism. If you want to find the liberals really pushing this, they’re a special segment called the SJWs (social justice warriors) and I have no respect for their viewpoint *when* it encourages people to embrace Islam the religion to the detriment of truth. I think the SJWs are really Marxists, more than liberals.

I also agree with you about Islam, except I think that reforming Islam is impossible. Last sentence, no problems. I’m glad I got to chat with you 🙂

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

So nice to just have a nice chat with someone for a change. So many just want to attack a person just for expressing their opinion. I am not calling for changing the laws but for raising awareness of the sanctity of life. You will notice most of our schools and cities started a cycle of deteriation and crime when abortion became legal and even more when the government started paying for abortions. Please note however, I am not advocating changing the laws, only that as a society becomes indifferent / cruel to the helpless in their midst, so too does their spiritual power as a whole. I agree Islam will not reform itself–yet. I have so many good Islamic friends. Such a horrifying contrast between the good and bad in Islam.
The person who called me a terrorist is a typical ideologue who because they cannot fashion intelligent and rationale arguments, simply resort to insults and smearing. They know deep down they have wrong views so rather than face the need to change their way of thinking, they lash out further.
One thing abou my posting. I NEVER give up or give in. I have followed posting threads for months until the other persons have given up.
Being PL, means I will follow this even more so because it is the most important value our society needs to learn.
Elites: Bush, Clinton, Obama, Kerry, McCain, Merkel, Cameron, and all their allies, the MSM ect.
I support all the liberal causes you mention but somehow I think of myself as a conservative? Hmmmm … not sure why .. Maybe I am not a conservative?
Nice chatting and see you again in the comment streams!

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

“So nice to just have a nice chat with someone for a change.”

I believe in nice chats unless someone is advocating for something really horrible (slavery, Nazism etc). The insulting nature of the Internet forums makes me passionate about reforming it.

“So many just want to attack a person just for expressing their opinion.”

I’ve been there too, brother. *Nods head in sympathy*

That being said, the majority of commenters treat me VERY well! Yes, I can even say, on prolife issues, people have generally – not always, but generally – shown me a marked respect and seen me as a human being and not as an enemy. Refusing to name-call goes a long way, I can tell you.

Civility is crucial. I believe, for instance, that if I want legal abortion advocates to be civil to me then I need to be civil to them. No name-calling, no baby-killer talk (although I don’t
believe it is wrong to say that abortion is murder as morally speaking it is). And the same goes for the vast majority of opinions. As another example, I might not like Mr. Trump but I won’t treat someone badly for that but rather seek to respectfully challenge them to rethink their position.

“I am not calling for changing the laws but for raising awareness of the sanctity of life.”

I would love to talk to you more about PL subjects! I have two websites I chat at dealing with that sort of topic:

http://blog.secularprolife.org/

joshbrahm.com

Both sites are awesome but the second site is better IMO (especially on the arguments level). No rudeness allowed there! And the host of that site is a particular friend of mine – a very nice man I think. And he does just what you want to do – raise awareness for the sanctity of life – in such a kind, respectful fashion, that people listen to him.

In regards to changing laws, we should change them but I disagree with the way the PL movement wants to change
them, as their propositions have proved to be unfair to the unborn and to women. But we also need to change society, and the thinking of society, for the protection of human life plus the respect for reproductive rights (which does not include abortion in my mind) for this to happen.

“You will notice most of our schools and cities started a cycle of deteriation and crime when abortion became legal and even more when the government started paying for abortions.”

I would truly love to see a source for that. I hear statements (no offence to anyone who makes them, as I’m critiquing ideas not people here) like “legalised abortion decreases
infanticide” and “if abortion became illegal women would resort to coat-hangers” for instance and I don’t know how to answer such statements although I believe the second one is somewhat truer than the first. However I can agree with this statement, because if you disrespect one group of people and their right to live, who will be next?

“Please note however, I am not advocating changing the
laws, only that as a society becomes indifferent / cruel to the helpless in their midst, so too does their spiritual power as a whole.

Absolutely!

Although I am curious to know, why do you not advocate for changing the laws (if I am understanding you correctly)?

“I agree Islam will not reform itself–yet. I have so many good Islamic friends. Such a horrifying contrast between the good and bad in Islam.”

Why do you say that?

Also, have you ever heard of the verse in the koran where the Muslims are commanded to take the Christians and the Jews for friends?

“The person who called me a terrorist is a typical ideologue who because they cannot fashion intelligent and rationale arguments, simply resort to insults and smearing. They know deep down they have wrong views so rather than face the need to change their way of thinking, they lash out further.”

While I respect the person being referenced, I have to sadly agree (although – no offence intended and if I cause offence I apologise in advance although I feel it needs to be said – I must respectfully note that you also name-called and, while I share your passion on the issue, I am not sure how name-calling will help people reconsider their positions). Furthermore I believe that anyone (again, not a smear on anyone in particular but rather a critique of human behaviour) who lashes out like that is either very assionate about what they believe, or cannot defend what they believe or really argue with what they are saying so
they will resort to abuse to silence the conscience. In some cases they could be retaliating because the other person was mean to them as well.

“One thing abou my posting. I NEVER give up or give in. I have followed posting threads for months until the other persons have given up.”

Okay. You sound like a very persistent man and that is something to be proud of.

“Being PL, means I will follow this even more so because it is the most important value our society needs to learn.”

Definitely, and all other rights come from that right. I like to ask, if our right to live is not respected, why have human rights at all?

“Elites: Bush, Clinton, Obama, Kerry, McCain, Merkel, Cameron, and all their allies, the MSM ect.”

I see. Never heard of the MSM so I’m unsure what that is.

“I support all the liberal causes you mention but somehow I think of myself as a conservative? Hmmmm … not sure why .. Maybe I am not a conservative?”

Actually, if you believe yourself to be a conservative, you are a conservative.

I say that because no matter how liberal/conservative or prolife/pro-legalised abortion or pro-gay/anti-gay (although it’s a rarity for a liberal to be anti-gay!) or environmentalist/traditional stewardship you are, something will always show that identifies you as the label you most closely align yourself with in spirit.

“Nice chatting and see you again in the comment streams!”

Same too, and once again, I hope that you can visit the sites I frequent and we can talk more about these very important issues.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

Hi again …

Islamic writings FORBID friendships with non-Muslims … period…

Hmm .. Can you point out how I name called?

MSM = Main Stream Media …

Laws will not solve this issue .. Only the hearts and souls and minds will solve this issue and it will mean people becoming less selfish and more spiritual and to respect all life. The more there is a fight over law, the more conflict and less progress …

Oh I have NEVER seen a pro-abortion person NOT use name-calling and derogatory language. They always do … and everyone I interacted with here on that comment stream DID seek to insult me.

That is the LEFTIST way.

I DO go full throttle name calling BUT not with abortion in this case.

I believe in rough language concerning other political issues WHEN THEY START IT FIRST because the stakes are so high and the leftists are so foul that the only way to shut them up is to give it them back in spades and make them feel like the fools they are. We cannot play nice anymore with the stakes being nuclear mass murder and the loss of all freedoms.

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

Hi again …

“Islamic writings FORBID friendships with non-Muslims … period…”

In regards to the Muslims taking the Jews and Christians as friends, I was thinking of this verse:

Quran (3:28) – “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in
nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them…” This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit. Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that “believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly.”

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/friends-with-jews-christians.aspx

That is what I was referring to – that Muslims could take Jews and Christians for friends for the sake of appearances.

“Hmm .. Can you point out how I name called?”

I realise I must sound rude, but here are two comments as examples of what I am referring to:

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thefederalist23/11_takeaways_from_hearing_on_baby_parts_trafficking/#comment-2639508863

In this one, you called this person a “monster”

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thefederalist23/11_takeaways_from_hearing_on_baby_parts_trafficking/#comment-2638347949

Also, you called someone a “load of murder” in this statement

I am sorry to be persistent on the point, but I must respectfully disagree with such phrases, as IMHO they don’t show our position to be intelligent but rather incoherent. I can understand that anger and frustration we all feel when people defend things that are morally repugnant. I’m not against that anger; sometimes I feel it myself. I simply don’t think that name-calling another person will help them reconsider their viewpoint. I realise you probably had your reasons for saying these things but at the same time, if I’m going to complain about the rudeness of legal abortion advocates when a prolifer is trying to be respectful, then I need to be fair and insist on prolifers being respectful as well WHEN people they disagree with are being respectful. That being said, when people attack others and try to insult them, it is natural and fair that people should fight back and they shouldn’t be stopped from doing so.

“MSM = Main Stream Media …”

Thank you for the explanation.

Yes, the mainstream media and their allies the SJWs (I have SJW friends and acquaintances so no offence to them personally, but rather a critique of their belief system) are working very hard to ensure that no good criticism of Islam is placed on the pages without a rebuttal of lies plus a good dishing out of the labels “racist” and “Islamophobic” and if they can, they will ban or delete anti-Islamic speech in the comment sections on their blogs. I find it positively distressing when people talk about how “pretty” hijabs are. Gosh, they’re oppression incarnate!

One ex-Muslim called Sherif Gaber pointed this out in his excellent video “A Message to Every Arab Girl”. BTW have you ever heard his story; if not here’s an article to tell you a little about him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherif_Gaber

But if Sherif Gaber, or any other ex-Muslim or non-Muslim, criticised the hijab, you might hear “Oh, the Christians oppress their women by making them wear head coverings too!” Which is true, but is beside the point. It is a red herring meant to distract from the real issue, which is Islamic oppression of women.

“Laws will not solve this issue .. Only the hearts and souls and minds will solve this issue and it will mean people becoming less selfish and more spiritual and to respect all life. The more there is a fight over law, the more conflict and less progress …”

I agree that laws alone won’t solve the issue. But laws can protect the vulnerable and the weak and that is why they are needed. Personally I think that it takes hearts and laws combined to protect life and reproductive freedoms; one without the other will not work.

That being said, what led you to believe the way you do about this issue, and why?

Also, you said, “it will mean people becoming less selfish and more spiritual and to respect all life”

How do you envision this happening?

Furthermore, you said “spiritual”; if I read that correctly then you are spiritual but not religious, yes? Respect all life – do you mean animal life and caring for the environment as well? If so, we are fellow soldiers.

“Oh I have NEVER seen a pro-abortion person NOT use name-calling and derogatory language. They always do … and everyone I interacted with here on that comment stream DID seek to insult me.”

I know one person – one – who has generally sought to be respectful to prolifers despite her disagreements with them. She’s left now, but she stuck up for people regardless of belief, and generally believed civility was just as important for legal abortion advocates as for prolifers. It was a privilege to know someone so open-minded and kind. Another lady I know who is personally prolife but not politically so has not been impolite to anyone on the subject although she has had it happen to her as well. Other than
that, I confess (and I mean no offence to any friend of mine reading this) that I have seen nearly everyone else believing in legalised abortion insulting people they disagreed with, although I will say that most of them have been very good to me and not insulted me horribly – I really respect them for that BTW, and have had great conversations with respectful folks about the matter (except for three, and those three cases are very hard to forgive and yes I could tell each story with the gall and bitterness of Wormwood). I’ve even made good friends with a few including the lady that left.

Any obnoxious behaviour from the opposition doesn’t make us angels either; sometimes we prolifers really can be rude to people too, which is why I emphasise never to condemn the person but always to speak of the behaviour for what it is.

I do not agree with your being called a terrorist without proof, nor the name-calling you received. No one should go through that indignity simply for disagreement with another person’s position. Such “debating” is in poor taste and anyone that does it shows can’t properly stand up for their opinions. However as a PL person I believe that my viewpoint is right, and I can defend it without resorting to insults because it is right and I want to show that I can behave intelligently, and possibly encourage someone to
reconsider their beliefs. I feel confident we will win one day and it is for that reason I keep speaking out.

“That is the LEFTIST way.”

I think it’s the way of anyone who can’t be bothered with intelligent conversation, regardless of their worldview. That being said, I hear you completely on that matter and when we do it, we are generally wrong to do it (although there are cases when we can and must call out the negative thinking in our society and sometimes that involves harsh speech, such as racism). How can we change hearts and minds when we curse people? I know not.

“I DO go full throttle name calling BUT not with abortion in this case.”

The second half of your sentence tells me that is a wise way to handle the life debate.

“I believe in rough language concerning other political issues WHEN THEY START IT FIRST because the stakes are so high and the leftists are so foul that the only way to shut them up is to give it them back in spades and make them feel like the fools they are. We cannot play nice anymore with the stakes being nuclear mass murder and the loss of all freedoms.”

I think the first half of your first sentence is right. I tend to be nice but that is a good point you say there. Sometimes we
*shouldn’t* be nice; when I say that, I mean we speak truthfully about the impact of the behaviour and accept the consequences of such an action and I believe we can do that without being unkind to *people* in the process. At the
same time, I think it’s wiser to get out of a conversation where people are behaving immaturely, and not waste time with such individuals.

Could you please explain what you mean by your last sentence, which refers to “nuclear mass murder and the loss of all freedoms”?

I suppose I’m a leftist (not an SJW though) but I’ve tried very hard *not* to be foul in my comments to people I disagree with, because I don’t think that will do anything for anyone except make people cross.

I hope I’ve been respectful and sensitive to your position and sentiments plus the feelings of others in my comment, and if I have not, I want to be told about it. Also, thanks for all your responses; I really am enjoying this chat and I hope you are too.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

Crystal,

You have been quite respectful, thank you. True leftists are fascists. You are not a leftist, simply a liberal who is PL. Leftists believe in absolute rule by the elite (themselves).

I misunderstood your claim of “friendship” between Muslims and westerners. So I guess we agree concerning the conservative by the Koran Muslims but … in all truth .. the dozens of Muslim friends I have made were actual friends and still are. They do not follow this teaching.

No, calling someone a “monster” is not name-calling nor that second term. Using terms like “idiot” ..”fool” .. ect.. That is name calling. A person who advocates murdering children by the millions IS indeed a monster. You will notice that the pro-abortionists frequently used insulting terms in their posts.

I don’t want those with misguided views to think for a second they won. Additionally, others folling the debate need to see clearly who had the better argument.

The Islamicists plan to use WMDs, Iran and ISIS, at the least. Many of the leftists in power hope they do, because they could more easily rule from the ruins, so they think: and besides, they hate western civilization and want it destroyed because they are egotistical and selfish “monsters.” Which I hope explains how I see the lost of freedom being the goal of the elitists as well. That is NOT difficult to see if you consider Main Stream Media propaganda.

Yes, thank you very much as well, Crystal. Stay well!

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

Hi Robert,

“You have been quite respectful, thank you. True leftists are fascists. You are not a leftist, simply a liberal who is PL. Leftists believe in absolute rule by the elite (themselves).”

Respect is very important to me.

You are probably right about my being a simple liberal. I respect and share many sectors of intersectionalist (I *think* intersectionalist = SJW) thinking (in fact I opine that intersectionalist thinking has helped me understand not only my society but the problem of Islam a little better due to the “power structure” philosophy as the West is not the only society with a power structure issue, something they fail to understand due to the revisionist history floating around favouring Islam and making the Muslims look like the “poor oppressed victims” when they were *really* the *rulers and oppressors of others* in their own lands) but believe the intersectionalists are generally blind when it comes to Islam so do not hold their view on it, but rather a more traditional one as it is a *religion* not a race/ethnicity and should not be labelled as such. I generally believe that people should follow what they believe as long as they’re not hurting anyone by it (Islam is a different story, frankly it should be outlawed). So – if a religion is teaching not only
TO harm and hate others, but also HOW to harm and hate others, the current secular laws should enforce the simple principle of refusing to permit harm to anyone in the name of religion; in other words such practices should be banned
due to the harm clause. We need to clearly define what that harm constitutes, and stick by that definition.

I do not think you have to be fascist to be of the ultra left in any way at all; unfortunately however the ultra leftists seem to be as intolerant of dissent as the ultra-right-wingers. Here are three articles to prove my point:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/27/antiracism-our-flawed-new-religion.html

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/12/04/activist-maryam-namazie-heckled-at-talk-by-muslim-students-who-say-she-invaded-their-safe-space/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/11/06/this-is-the-speech-that-maryam-namazies-critics-said-would-incite-hatred-at-warwick-university/

If you read the articles, you will find that there are liberals out there fighting this mentality, known by some to be the “soft bigotry of low expectations”. In other words, those who believe in the “soft bigotry of low expectations” tend to think that the non-whites can do no wrong and never have done wrong. Since they belong to the human race, they are as capable of error as any white person and it is wrong to claim otherwise.

On the second article, you will see my (and many other people’s) comments expressing outrage at the inconsistency of an ex-Muslim not being allowed to speak about her reality as a minority in the non-white community, while the Muslims, and white, privileged feminists and homosexuals ganged up on this poor woman. What had she done? She’d challenged the – white and Muslim – narrative
that Muslims are a poor, oppressed, bullied people in the West by being an ex-Muslim and speaking about her experiences. One really has to wonder why it is that the SJWs (most of them, not all) are so interested in attacking
Christianity and its vices against women and gay people yet forbid any negative speech against Islam for its offences on that score, which I might state are a million times worse.

“I misunderstood your claim of “friendship” between Muslims and westerners. So I guess we agree concerning the conservative by the Koran Muslims but … in all truth .. the dozens of Muslim friends I have made were actual friends and still are. They do not follow this teaching.”

I think we do agree concerning the conservative by the koran Muslims. I call them the so-called “moderate” Muslims who are really fundies in disguise.

I hope you don’t mind if I ask a few simple questions about these acquaintances of yours:

For instance, have you ever asked them about their beliefs on Sharia and jihad, and asked them to define these terms for you? Have they ever denounced such groups as CAIR (a Muslim Brotherhood organisation), PLO, and Hamas as terror organisations? Also, have you ever heard of or read the Reliance of the Traveler, the Sharia manual respected by all fundie Muslims?

“No, calling someone a “monster” is not name-calling nor that second term. Using terms like “idiot” ..”fool” .. ect.. That is name calling. A person who advocates murdering children by the millions IS indeed a monster.”

I’m afraid this is one area I must respectfully disagree with you on. Although I agree that the pro-legal abortion belief system is morally repugnant due to its fruits in our society and its teachings that some lives have more value than
others, I do not agree that we will help either ourselves or other people when we call people we disagree with “monsters” and other such names. That being said, I would personally reserve that rebuke for people like Hillary Clinton, who are pushing and promoting it, if they would not change their minds or be willing to reconsider their viewpoint; as people generally deserve our respect. Many people have never heard of the prolife position, or have heard negative things about it, and I want them to see that we are educated and decent individuals, not terrorists. Since the issue is so controversial and there is so much spite between the two sides, I do not want to add fuel to the fire. We agree in this way –education and changing hearts and minds is the best resort to dismantling this very serious issue in our world today. Last but not least, I would rather defend my position than attack another person’s; I learned that from Christians who witnessed to others about their beliefs.

“You will notice that the pro-abortionists frequently used insulting terms in their posts.”

Sadly, I have noticed, and have resolved not to be like that, although I am endeavouring to stand up for myself if unfairly picked on now. It’s a hard lesson for me, but I’m trying.

Personally I think insulting terms can be used to defend yourself if someone is unfairly accusing you or someone you care about or behaving dishonestly or dishonourably toward you or your viewpoint, to provide satire, or to offer a voice to those that feel powerless to speak; in those cases, we need them. That being said, they are generally a refuge for those who cannot answer what you are saying logically and reasonably, and this case is only one prime example out of many. Their consciences are pricked and they can’t refute what the opponent is saying so they will lash out in rage, it is their only “argument”; the practice of abortion cannot really be defended despite its plethora of eager defenders (do they have a point on women’s rights? Sure, but that still cannot justify abortion itself). I notice the highest opponents are single men, single sexually-inactive women, and ex-prolifers. Although I believe it is imperative to point out that I have also known legal abortion advocates to be kind and respectful (especially toward me), and to argue from a rational, educated viewpoint for their position (and I feel respect for these people, a lot, and mean them no insult by my general observations); I’m not against that style of arguing from anyone although I strongly deplore the opposing belief system on this particular question.

“I don’t want those with misguided views to think for a second they won. Additionally, others folling the debate need to see clearly who had the better argument.”

That sentence is precisely *why* I respectfully disagree with your strategy in general circumstances. If people see me cursing and fighting, they might assume they had the better of me. Furthermore, I would like people reading the Internet to know they’re reading something of substance, something
philosophical and reasoned, one’s personal thoughts. Half the time when I surf commenting sections on various websites, I feel like I’m reading spam because the forums are full of arguments, bickering, gossip, fighting, bullying, etc; rather than significant, substantial conversations that will unite people, and change the world, and educate people on the issues before us. On the other hand, I’m all for defending yourself if you’re being treated rottenly on the Internet or in real life and sometimes that might involve spouting out a few f-bombs.

I confess, I am guilty in this way – I used to roll over and apologise for being so offensive especially when the person expressed anger and cruelty. I’m not against apologising for offence caused (I do it all the time!) but sometimes apology is the wrong stratagem and I am so regretful for those rare occasions when I should have stood up for myself and what I believed rather than rolling over for a few bullies.

“The Islamicists plan to use WMDs, Iran and ISIS, at the least. Many of the leftists in power hope they do, because they could more easily rule from the ruins, so they think: and besides, they hate western civilization and want it destroyed because they are egotistical and selfish “monsters.” Which I hope explains how I see the lost of freedom being the goal of the elitists as well. That is NOT difficult to see if you consider Main Stream Media propaganda.”

Hmm, I’m not sure I understand you here, to be honest. Although I appreciate your frankness on this issue, I must ask, from what sources are you deriving your information about the leftists and Islamicists working together on WMDs, Iran, terror groups like IS, etc?

PS: Did you see my two links to the PL websites I mentioned, and if so, what did you think of them? Do you think they’re good places for PL discourse, because PL discourse, interesting as it can be, is off-topic here and I want to be respectful to the moderators here.

I look forward to your response on my entire comment if you are willing to give it as I really appreciate your valuable insights, and hope you stay well too, Robert!

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

I agree with pretty much everything you stated and you said it very eloquently.

I have never asked my Muslim friends about Muslim atrocities because at the time of our friendship, I had no idea they were going on. But I would do so if the topic presented itself but would NOT otherwise since I do NOT blame them personally for the failures of Islam. However, via Facebook, I would NOT be afraid to post information detailing the atrocities of Islam even thought they would see it and I have done this. One has questioned me on such and I explained but she didn’t want to discuss it further.

Banning Islam is a sensible policy but before that can happen, we have to remove the leftists from power and from the MSM or that will never happen.

I have seldom seen conservatives as willing to insult immediately as leftists are.

Not all leftists are fascists but many are. Liberals are not fascist but can be if they are exteme leftists. Case by case depending on whether they defend the right of others to have different opinions and do not immediately try to shout down or insult others from the get go.

Like I said … meeting a group of leftist fascists online and having them attempt to shout me down and insult … the choice of simply walking away is not an option for me .. Breitbart-style .. I return the favor and I have never lost … All of them were broken in the end … When good men / women saying nothing ..evil triumphs .. You don’t agree .. that is fine ..

Harmony and Freedom

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

Firstly, thank you for the fine compliment sir! I also agree with most of your comments.

In regards to the Muslims you know, I understand that you have your reasons for handling this situation the way you choose to, but if you ever need the questions please make use of them. Personally I tend to be very suspicious of
the Muslim community due to the bad behaviour their leaders promote and encourage the people to get up to, plus their abominable holey koran and the vile propaganda against human beings contained therein.

“Banning Islam is a sensible policy but before that can happen, we have to remove the leftists from power and from the MSM or that will never happen.”

I agree with this.

AFAIK Barack Obama has employed many Muslims in high positions of power, positions that none of them would want to give up anytime soon.

One thing that particularly disturbs me is that Muslims are allowed in the immigration department, and what happens is that people like Assyrian Christians and ex-Muslims and liberals like Raif Badawi don’t get a chance ever. Instead they give room to people like those brothers in Boston who used a backpack to explode into a crowd. That is so horrific to me, the scars and the pain and the fear those poor people felt will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

I am unsure how to proceed with what you have suggested though. I wonder how the Muslim community would be impacted by a ban on Islam; what do you think?

“I have seldom seen conservatives as willing to insult immediately as leftists are.”

I completely understand what you mean about the leftists. That being said, “conservative” people willing to insult tend to be more right-wing than conservative, investing their whole lives in fundamentalist Christianity, dominion theology, and other such beliefs. They freak me the hell out, Robert.

“Not all leftists are fascists but many are. Liberals are not fascist but can be if they are exteme leftists. Case by case depending on whether they defend the right of others to have different opinions and do not immediately try to shout down or insult others from the get go.”

Agreed 100%, also thanks for understanding about liberals, that we’re not all evil fascist freaks bent on destroying the West. I hate the conservative stereotype against us; it is very painful to hear especially after learning about the SJWs and the mischief they get up to WHEN they promote Islam (although generally they do a great deal of good when dealing with any topic but Islam!).

“You don’t agree .. that is fine ..”

With respect, I think you misunderstand what I said. I never said I didn’t agree with calling out people for being abusive, cruel, or spouting out BS or promoting false beliefs, but rather with the way it was done. I even said I was willing to speak strongly to people like Hillary Clinton if that’s what it
took. That being said, I understand that everyone will approach this situation differently and will have their reasons for doing so.

I do not think that people are letting evil win by not being rude, as long as they state truth with conviction and clarity and refuse to back down. That is something I have to work on, and despite certain differences between us in this area, I admire that you are a sincere person, and willing to stand by what you believe and not back down no matter how antagonistic people can get toward you.

I hope that disagreement over debating style does not equate to an abrupt halt to our conversation. I do enjoy our chats and I never meant to criticise or attack you personally at all and if I have done this I apologise. Furthermore I hope
you’re enjoying yourself, as I certainly am. Last but not least I also hope that I have been listening carefully to your points and not just spouting mine out, and if I have not, I will try to change that.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

You are taking the higher road in not lowering yourself to exchanging insults.

It is nice to see how much we agree.

…You are right there are right-ists who can be very INSULT first without offering any discussion either …

When a troll shows up and is really obnoxious and repeatedly steps on everyone’s toes in an insulting moronic fashion…. I do enjoy taking them on .. I have never lost … but then you would possibly decide I am a very vulgar person. But by all means … taking the higher road has more to be said for it … I really tried hard to do that with the abortion discussion at the Federalist even when the leftists were using bad words. Maybe I can change.

Take care Crystal and keep fighting the good fight.

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

I hope you don’t mind my asking about domestic terrorism etc, BTW. If that is a rude question I apologise.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

No, not rude at all .. Domestic terrorism? In what sense?

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

Robert Dear. Standing outside abortion clinics and ringing up abortion practitioners to threaten them with death and harass them out of town. Screaming baby-killer at women going into a PP building. That sort of thing, and if I can think of a few others I’ll add them to the list. Thanks for answering my questions; I realise it might sound nosy being asked by a complete stranger if you’re a domestic terrorist or not and I can appreciate the awkwardness of such a question.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

I see .. thanks for explaining .. I am against any violence of any kind … Loud protests? No. Counter-productive at the clinics. Prayer vigils at the clinics? Yes .. that would be OK.. a sign that gently said .. “We can help you make a better choice..” But no shouting ..

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

I agree with you here, and am glad we are on the same page on this.

What do you think of sidewalk counselling and picketing? Just curious.

Also, I remember one time I was commenting on one of my favourite sites (it’s not PL by the way), this guy came onto the forum and started talking about how he wanted to shoot abortion practitioners and me and my fellow commenters got stuck into him and told him that that was very wrong; one woman wanted to ring the police and I can’t blame her for feeling threatened.

I have more respect for the man who sat in the snow in Michigan and camped in a tent outside his church to protest injustice against the LGBTQ+ community than people like Robert Dear, and people planting threats under abortion practitioners’ cars.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

Sidewalk prayers and counseling but … at a distance, like a 100 feet away … Too direct or too close is conflict ….

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

That’s fair – although I have heard that sidewalk counsellers harass women 🙁

Do you think that’s true or not?

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

Probably some do … I wish they would not. It is strange but I guess I would hold that no one has a right to stop women from killing their children but it is still murder and a great wrong. The kids have a soul from conception and they do have a right to live. What needs to happen is for science to advance to the point where a soul is scientifically verifiable. My point is that until it can be scientifically proven that the pre-birth humans have no soul, then in case of uncertainity, no one has a right to kill but to try to stop mothers from killing their children is problematic since it is so personal. The best approach is to enlighten mothers on there really being a child within them that is immortal and whom they will meet some day in the after world. I have heard of such cases 3rd person and have seen them personally but how to prove it in an objective way, is still something very important that has yet to be achieved. However, the universe is just and that there is a kind of karma for nations committing mass murder such as abortion is. If I am wrong, then there will be no nuking of western cities for mass abortions in the millions.

The only legal aspect I wish to fight about is NOT using public funds for abortions.

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert Bayer

“Probably some do … I wish they would not.”

I don’t know what to believe myself, but if it is true then they shouldn’t. I don’t think that giving information into a woman’s hands to encourage her to reconsider is harassment though, especially if the woman is open to receiving it.

“It is strange but I guess I would hold that no one has a right to stop women from killing their children but it is still murder and a great wrong.”

Why do you believe that? In other words, what experience or philosophy led you to that conclusion?

Also, would you consider yourself “personally prolife but politically prochoice”? Even if you are, you are genuinely speaking out against it and that is a good thing. Last but not least, are you libertarian? I ask because I know a good
friend who is libertarian and also opposes it though he doesn’t necessarily believe in its being illegal.

I have to disagree with that position, because no one would take such an attitude with animal abuse, wife beating, homophobia or any other vice in society, and I fail to see why abortion should not be treated the same way as the other offences. Also, the government is, to put it bluntly, sanctioning murder by permitting it to continue being legal and therefore is responsible for the deaths that take place because of such a decision. If something is legal, people will tend to be more accepting of it than if it is not, because they will tend to think it is morally acceptable. Leaving abortion legal is sending a morally deceptive message on this front and therefore I cannot condone it.

I believe, however, that you hold the position you do because you personally want to encourage as many people as possible to reconsider, or not to do it without using laws to dictate; would I be correct in assuming this? I have to say, you are sincere about what you believe on the subject of abortion being a moral wrong and I really appreciate that.

“The kids have a soul from conception and they do have a right to live.”

I do agree with that. Although I don’t talk much about souls with legal abortion advocates. I prefer to discuss humanity as the ones I have spoken to tend to argue with the concept of a soul.

“What needs to happen is for science to advance to the point where a soul is scientifically verifiable.”

How would science accomplish this in your opinion? How can science prove a soul? I don’t understand how that is possible so could you please expound?

“My point is that until it can be scientifically proven that the pre-birth humans have no soul, then in case of uncertainity, no one has a right to kill but to try to stop mothers from killing their children is problematic since it is so personal.”

Although I agree with the first part of your sentence, and recognise that abortion is a personal decision, I also have to disagree in this respect – once the child is conceived, such a decision affects two persons rather than one and I believe it best to encourage women not to abort and to seek out alternative options.

I have talked about how I think abortion should be illegal – I’m also willing to recognise that the laws as they currently stand are severely flawed, and have downsides in them regarding women’s rights that must be addressed otherwise the laws could become unjust and tyrannical toward women and, for instance, inflict punishment for miscarrying or taking drugs in ignorance of their pregnancies. I’m not afraid to recognise these problems and call them out as well.

“The best approach is to enlighten mothers on there really being a child within them that is immortal and whom they will meet some day in the after world.”

Firstly, I’m happy to be speaking to a fellow spiritual-but-not-religious person (if that is correct, that is).

Although I agree with this sentence, I wonder, how are you going to tell an atheist this? AFAIK atheists don’t believe in souls, or the immortal, but rather doing their best in the here and now.

Also, how can you enlighten mothers on the child’s immortality, that is, if you wouldn’t mind explaining?

“I have heard of such cases 3rd person and have seen them personally but how to prove it in an objective way, is still something very important that has yet to be achieved.”

I agree, although I have never heard of such cases myself. Would you mind telling me about one of them?

“However, the universe is just and that there is a kind of karma for nations committing mass murder such as abortion is.”

I agree totally. A dear friend of mine tells me that he believes God is going to punish our society for legalised abortion because the government is sanctioning it by allowing it to be legal and is therefore responsible for the great loss of life incurred.

“If I am wrong, then there will be no nuking of western cities for mass abortions in the millions.”

I’m not sure what you mean here. Could you please explain?

“The only legal aspect I wish to fight about is NOT using public funds for abortions.”

I do agree with that, but I think it should go further. I am unsure how abortion can stop being publicly funded if it is legal; furthermore Ms. Clinton supports it and if she gets in (which I think she will) then nonviolent prolifism will suffer a severe backlash in its work and expression.

Robert Bayer
Robert Bayer
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

But to shout at them .. that is different than simply standing on a sidewalk and politely asking to speak with them before they have the abortion ..

The reason I do not believe I have a right to stop women from killing their own born because of the unique situation that the baby is inside of their body. Are we going to have fines or prison time for women who do? I don’t think so .. Perhaps for the doctors ..but .. that indirectly will be considered harassment of the women. What we need to focus on is educating women on the dangers of abortion .. physical and spiritual … That children do have souls and they will be disadvantaged by their murder concerning life in the spirit world. Is abortion murder? Yes.
Should we have laws which force citizens to pay for the abortions that the poor want? No. Yet we are paying over a half-a-billion dollars a year RIGHT NOW to do that.

I am NOT politically pro-choice … I am simply being realistic about it via the reasons I just stated. Reread what I just stated and think about it. It is just too personal a situation for outside laws to intervene. PL should have the goal of educating and enlightening the world. What we really need is proof of life after death for the unborn and what kind of life it is for them (a very bad one).

Karma …. millions and millions of unborn killed .. using public tax money … therefore .. spiritual protection and positive inspiration for countries like the USA as a whole will disappear IF abortion is a great EVIL .. but if not .. then there is no problem ..and nothing catastrophic will happen to our societies. I believe catastrophic loss of life is not far off …

I don’t understand why you think if abortion is legal, then public funding cannot be prevented. Obviously this was the case for decades. Of course leftists WANT PUBLIC FUNDING.

I hope to someday prove there life in the next world and that the unborn have a hellish life because they were aborted.

Tatonka
Tatonka
7 years ago

Isn’t Taqiyya just wonderful,…it fools just about everybody but us.

Keith
Keith
7 years ago

I wonder if he is one of the “peaceful majority” of muslims that my Member of Parliament told me about in his response (after 8 months) to my explaining to him my concerns about Islam?

harbidoll
harbidoll
7 years ago

In history class Junior High, the US v Barbary Coast wars were against “those” pirates of “those” times, Nothing to do with Islam! & we are doomed to repeat history.

Logic PrObe
Logic PrObe
7 years ago

This is why most muslims are too afraid to leave.
It is also why Islam should be declassified as a religion and registered as a dangerous cult.

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Logic PrObe

ITA.

In that case, how would such a classification treat liberal Muslims, and I really mean liberal, not fundamentalists pretending to be moderates? I ask because I realise this question might be raised by others and I’m interested as to your answer to that.

Logic PrObe
Logic PrObe
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

Do these ‘liberal muslims’ not believe what is written in the Koran?

Crystal
Crystal
7 years ago
Reply to  Logic PrObe

That’s a good question and I really don’t know, but I don’t
think they would believe in a literal interpretation of killing non-Muslims etc; I’m not sure though because I’m looking more at their attitudes and deeds but your question is fair. I’m thinking of people like, say, Raif Badawi, if he is still a Muslim (I think he doesn’t believe in anything anymore) because he
really tried to reform Saudi Arabia rather than stick to the rules, rather than the “moderate” Muslim commonly touted as a “good example” of a “good” Muslim; do you understand what I’m trying to ask now?

Logic PrObe
Logic PrObe
7 years ago
Reply to  Crystal

The ‘good’ muslim believes in Sharia and what is written in the Koran.
When called upon for jihad, what do you think the ‘moderates’ or ‘good’ muslims will do?

Drew the Infidel
Drew the Infidel
7 years ago

The better question is why he is even still breathing free air. Death threats are a felony offense in the US, at least in jurisdictions that have the balls to prosecute it.

ColonelNeville
ColonelNeville
7 years ago

Arrest, charge, try and hang him high.

Stephen Honig
Stephen Honig
7 years ago

All Godly religions must unite to fight Islam. We need another crusade to kill the Muslim infidels. It seems the governments are afraid to fight them. When and if Obama leaves office he will leave his destruction as Nero and Caligula did.

lolly
lolly
7 years ago

The punishment for apostasy in Islam is death. Let us not kid ourselves. Whoever accepts Islam, accepts this. And if you do not accept death as the punishment for apostasy, it is your moral duty to stop accepting Islam.

Sponsored
Geller Report
Thanks for sharing!