Another Public School Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in Arabic, “One Nation Under Allah”

ByPamela Geller on March 19, 2015
183 Comments
islam-in-schools-2

I warned and wrote extensively about the growing islamization of the public schools and the public school curriculum in my 2011 book, Stop Islamization of America. Not only was I dead on, but it has only gotten worse. Much worse.

This is not the first time that I am reporting on public school children reciting the pledge of allegiance, one nation under allah, in Arabic.

What is so frightening is that the clueless administrators and dhimmi teachers don’t know what it is they are saying and doing, and what these terrible words actually mean.

What is a nation under Allah? The Islamic State is one nation under Allah. Iran is one nation under Allah. The African Caliphate is one nation under Allah. Our children are being primed for slaughter. Sheep to slaughter. Pakistan is one nation under Allah. Let’s talk about what goes on in one nation under Allah. Let’s start teaching about the creed apartheid, gender apartheid, Islamic Jew-hatred, misogyny, Islamic supremacism, death penalty for blasphemy and apostasy under Allah.

One nation under Allah: Fury after school recites pledge in Arabic
fort-collins-colorado-school-recites-pledge-of-allegiance-in-arabic-praises-allah

By Todd Starnes, March 19, 2015 FoxNews.com

Students at Pine Bush High School in Pine Bush, New York, knew right away there was something not quite right about the Pledge of Allegiance. That’s because the pledge was being recited in Arabic.

“One nation under Allah,” the student body president announced over the intercom system on Wednesday.

Reaction in the upstate New York high school was swift, and so was the backlash, The Times Herald-Record reports. Furious students tried to shout down the recitation in their classrooms. Other students sat down in protest.

School Superintendent Joan Carbone told the newspaper that the Arabic pledge “divided the school in half” – noting that many complaints came from Jewish parents and those who had lost family members fighting the war on terror.

The outrage among students was so significant that the school issued an apology.

“We sincerely apologize for having the Pledge of Allegiance recited this morning in the high school in a language other than English,” the apology read. “In our school district the Pledge of Allegiance will only be recited in English as recommended by the Commissioner of Education.”

Well, that’s somewhat reassuring.

However, state regulations do not mandate that the pledge be recited in a specific language. It recommends only specific wording.

108.5 Pledge to the flag.

(a) It is recommended that schools use the following pledge to the flag:

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

(b) In giving the pledge to the flag, the procedure is to render the pledge by standing with the right hand over the heart.

The school said the pledge was recited in Arabic as a way to honor National Foreign Language Week “and in an effort to celebrate the many races, cultures and religions that make up this great country.” It said the pledge had been recited in other languages throughout the week.

That explanation didn’t set well with student Alex Krug.

“I think it should be said in English,” he told television station TWCNews.com. “It is foreign language week but we don’t even offer Arabic in Pine Bush High School.”

Andrew Zink, the student body president, defended what he did and said he would do it all over again – telling TWC News he “knew exactly what would happen” because “it’s the right thing to do.”

Zink wrote on his Twitter account: “To everyone who disagrees with my decisions, I respect your right to do so and hope we can have a productive conversation,”

Oh, there’s been no shortage of conversation around the small town.

“Thanks to the illegal invasion and the concept of ‘celebrate diversity,’ English is becoming a foreign language in America,” one critic wrote on the local newspaper’s website.

A writer who claimed to be an American of Arab Christian ancestry said he, too, was offended by what happened.

“The Pledge of Allegiance isn’t a ‘salute’ to America,” he wrote. “It’s a promise to be loyal to it. Part of that loyalty should be to learn English and integrating into our culture.”

Based on the comments made by the student body president, it appears the Arabic recitation was less about celebrating a foreign language and more about stirring up trouble.

In my most recent book, “God Less America,” I illustrate how the nation’s public schools have been turned into indoctrination centers. Teachers are preaching a liberal ideology. Our schoolhouses have become places where Christianity is marginalized and Islam is given accommodation.

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  • Waiting…

    OH MY GOD…

    • Your Friend Clem

      Sorry to be the one to break the news, but “they” regard “H-m” as their “G-d”
      and have done for the last 1400 -odd years.

  • Commieobamie

    One Nation under SATAN… isn’t that Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Libya, Tunisia, “Pokistan”, the White Hut?

    • sandra schmidt

      The White Hut? ROFLMFAO!

      • Bonnetierre

        White Mosque.

        • Dr. Doomsday

          Mosque-ow?

          • Bonnetierre

            Imam-in-Chief

  • Nanaknows2

    I would be pulling my kids out of that school like NOW!!!!

  • Fatima Ahmed

    Pledging alliance to a thing who calls himself ‘The Greatest Deceiver of all’,(Surah 3:54), is suicide!!!

  • traci94

    I’m sure we’ll be hearing from the likes of CAIR soon, and they will be whining about Islamophobia. People are ignorant regarding this issue and really need to do what it takes to inform themselves, especially before pulling a stunt like this. When we say one nation, under God, it is not Allah whom we are speaking of

  • pdxnag

    Can we have the pre-Eisenhower pledge back? Back before indivisible was replaced by under god.

  • humboldtcurrent joe

    Every teacher,principle or accomplice in this should be fired immediately.

  • Eddy

    A little painting I did in school for the teachers who went Islamo on us

    .

    • Ned

      Amen Eddy!

      • Eddy

        I got expelled for one week, but it was worth it!

        • Your Friend Clem

          You got expelled? What are your parents saying? What is the local community saying?

    • JacktheRipper

      Sort of an islamo-Easter bunny. Cool.

    • JacksonPearson

      This one always works too….:

    • disqus_HlH4Faibhw

      Cute! You should have done one with a piggy!

  • Jeff Brady

    Brainwashed dumbazzez

  • Rob

    So let me get this straight they take Jesus out of our schools but this is ok …Did i miss something here? Wtf

    • Eddy

      You got it homer. It’s a crock to be sure.

    • Gufo

      Of course, it is against the constitution to teach religion in public schools, but law only applies to non-muslims, as we all see every time, every day, all over the world. Pedophilia, rape, domestic violence, double standards, polygamy, child sexual exploitation and genital mutilations, outrage to police officers and institutions, sucking up welfare and resources with crime and destruction in return, screaming and shouting unconstitutional slogans on the streets, etc. etc. these are crimes for everyone but muslims. For them, it goes under cultural differences, and damned be everyone who dares saying that the law is equal to everyone. YOU RACISTS-BIGOTS-ISLAMOPHOBES-WHATEVER-IT-MEANS!!!

      • kirapapa

        It actually isn’t against the constitution to teach religion in public schools, it says the US congress “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” It just says the federal government can not specify which religion you should practice. That’s it. The phrase “separation of church and state” doesn’t exist in the constitution

        • Gufo

          So how do you explain the double standards?

          • Mitchell

            They are in your mind.

          • Gufo

            I wish they were, I wish there were field trips to Hindu temples, churches with the sole objective of illustrating the religion and not just the art, I wish muslims were jailed for committing crimes that are presented as cultural differences, I wish they stopped whining about being persecuted while they are the ones persecuting everyone, I wish the pedophile psychopathic prophet of ISLAM had been a peaceful man instead of killing whoever did not worship him and creating every surah to appease his lower instincts and needs, i wish there were no double standards and teachings of racism, hatred and destruction the quran, but it’s all in there. Read it.

          • Mitchell

            I have. I’ve read the Koran, The Gospel, the Torah, the Talmud, Christian Law & Shariah Law. I’ve yet to see major differences. Jesus was Jewish. This means that all the massacres decreed are fine with him. In turn the Talmud tells you Jesus is boiling in a pool of semen in hell. The Koran tells you if you’re attacked, defend yourself then quotes the violence perpetrated upon Edom as punishment enough (basically, the Hebrews were to wipe them out to the last child). Eye for an eye, no pork and all that. Mary mother of God was wed to Yusef at 14. It’s nice to cherry pick from scripture you don’t like but the problem is it goes both ways.

          • Gufo

            It doesn’t. Where are the Christians or the Jews carrying out terroristic attacks all over the world, NOW not in the past? Or maybe ISLAM needs to get even with whatever other religions have done, is that what you’re saying? This is not about picking from scriptures I like or not. It is not about personal taste. It is about people still believing that the world should go back to the 7th Century, whose perception of the world has never changed. All religions have something good and bad and everybody knows, but the outcomes are not the same. I believe what I see, not what I read. I see people all over the world _ educated and ignorant, rich and poor, smart and stupid _ turning into rabid dogs in the name of one book, justifying all they do in the name of one book, getting “offended” and using one book to get special concessions like it used to happen in the Middle Ages. What is the difference? Theoretically there is none, actually all the countries where ISLAM prospers are not prospering (forget about having oil in your garden, let’s talk about human rights and life standards of ALL the citizens) and all the countries that went through a process of separation of “church” and state do. Even more simple: take a look at muslim neighborhoods in Europe and in US and other neighborhoods… any difference?

          • Mitchell

            Where? Israel. You could disagree if you like but that doesn’t change the truth. Christians attack Muslims TODAY in India, Malaysia and to a lesser extent UK, US unless you include us bombing them mercilessly.
            Truth be told, Libya was really nice. The airport clean and interchangeable with many in the states. I found it more developed and far safer than the U.S. & Russia. Turkey was beautiful. My uncle is from there…atheist guy worked for Unical. Indonesia felt like the Caribbean, language aside. As far as “seeing” verses “reading”. You belived this article as an affront, despite it not being so. I suggest reading or traveling. Both is best. A myopic small view of a great number of people you don’t know is a terrible way to live. Btw muslim neighborhood in brooklyn is pretty nice. As is the one in Chicago & Detroit. Phillys a little rough but I’ve had no trouble traveling through it.

          • Gufo

            I suggest reading or traveling. Both is best. A myopic small view of a great number of people you don’t know is a terrible way to live. Paris: Le Marais, Jewish neighborhood, and the banlieues, inhabited mostly by muslims, whose sole occupation is burning cars, cursing and attacking non-muslims, and sucking up welfare from the same democracy they want to destroy. 20eme arrondissement, mostly muslims.. better to to walk there at night, VS 11eme arrondissement just next to it, Jewish neighborhood, perfectly fine walking any time of night or day. UK = what happened in Rotherham? Perhaps some Christian priests were among the muslims raping an incredible amount of underage girls (it is actually possible). Are you talking about Libya now, or when the muslim brotherhood was still under control? Kabul = beautiful city while ISLAM was not followed as it should be, which is right now… Istanbul = great city, actually safer than many American cities, as well as the whole country of Turkey as Ataturk decided not to follow ISLAM literally, less and less since Erdogan decided to increase his support to ISLAM. New York = Jackson Heights is very nice but muslims are not enough to create trouble, yet, Astoria used to be now not so much as their number is increasing, VS upper west side, Riverdale or other Jewish neighborhoods, safe, clean, contributing to the wealth of society. Sweden, well it used to be one of the safest countries in Europe, no more, take a look at the city of Malmo. China: well, they are certainly not the best example to tach about human rights, but where do they have troubles, all the time? Who lives in northwestern China? Lebanon = Beirut was the Paris of the Middle East, before the muslims decided that no! we can’t tolerate that! Israel… I haven’t been there, it looks like the only democracy in the Middle East, I wonder if it’s true.

          • Mitchell

            YOURE HILARIOUS! I’ve been to Le Marais. I saw lots of Muslims, no burning cars before or after 9/11. REALLY nice hotels. Very safe.
            But you’ve made your point. Your view of Muslims in general is that they are beneath you either because you hate them over racial issue, religious issue or both. I know good chistians. I know good jews & Muslims. I also know that if you take the “Jesus” interchanged with “ALLAH” a religious zealot is one and the same. Most terror attacks HERE are by Christians. I’m a bit conflicted about 9/11 myself ever since I saw the first building go down i realized that that could never happen without controlled demolition (I worked as a elevator man then) but I don’t delve into the theories because they’re too many and too convoluted. But; bush, Rumsfeld and co all told us we were not fighting Islam, but terror in all forms. Considering the damage WE did by exiling/shooting dead democratically chosen Middle East leaders in FAVOR of Ayatollahs, Kings & Dictators. every one of said countries like Lebanon who the muslim population did rebel due to the British leaving the Christian minority who were QUITE brutal to Muslims and Christians alike without support…I digress. You sir, just require a reason- however flimsy – to dislike Muslims and I’m sure you’re not too keen on Jews and Blacks either.
            Since I’ve switch to phone it’s a bit hectic attempting to reason with you and autocorrect so I’ll stick with reason alone.

          • Gufo

            As you wish. Actually, Le Marais is historically a Jewish neighborhood, there are many muslims, who usually insult Jews in their restaurants and businesses. That was an example of a nice neighborhood, so I see that we agree on that one. I do not hate people, ever, as that would be against the laws of probabilities. Of course there are good and bad people all over the world, I met great muslims (especially my Turkish friends, very nice people, because they have no idea what the quran says, or they don’t care) and terrible Christians, or whatever else. I will leave you with your narrative, that you like to pursue no matter what evidence you see, just letting you know that half of my family is from Uganda, and they are native, not the evil white colonizers who are obviously the reason why the poor muslims are going crazy all over the world as you like to think. As far as I am concerned, muslims could be beneath or above me, that does not make any difference. They are free to do whatever they want, live in their countries and keep raping, abusing, and destroying. I couldn’t care less how countries decide to govern themselves. What I really hate if you like to apply this to me no matter what, is the ideology, as when a small minority takes ideas the wrong way, there’s something wrong with the people… but when a large majority takes the same ideas the wrong way, in the same exact wrong way, well then there’s something wrong with the idea. Nazism is a good example. Concerning Jews… I only know few of them, but I have great respect for any civilization trying to humanize humans, instead of dehumanizing them like ISLAM does.

          • Mitchell

            So you’re fine with the ilegal occupations of several countries, demonizing people we screwed out of democracy and believe because you were (eventually) a nice white family, you aren’t progeny of colonial thievery. You can blame Muslims but it’s childish attempt at screaming over someone with the facts. Jews have peacefully coexisted within Islamic countries for CENTURIES. They had Christians to worry about in Europe long after Muhammad fought his wars. So I’m sorry if your fairy tales have different versions and you’re oh so angry about it, but I find all fundies vile. I know more Christian ones as I live in this Christian country that many want to make a theocracy. Btw: you’re Ugandan and I guess the LRA isnt killing Catholics? Like I guess they stopped. Your privileged delusion is absolutely mystifying.

          • Gufo

            Now I recognize your style. Muslims can’t take any criticism, and when they don’t know what to say about evidence, they start insulting and blaming all their problems on colonial thievery, Western civilization, and capitalism. It’s always someone else’s fault for your retardment, we get it. Keep your fairy tales, I understand that the muslim IQ does not allow you to think forward. Peace and love, hopeless case. Never mind.

          • Mitchell

            Lol except my evidence that is readily verifiable and the fact that I’m not religious in the least. You sound like a fundamentalist yourself but you’re clueless. I DO however hate people to be beaten on for actions of a ridiculous few. Its like defending zimmerman. He’s a known & consistently violent criminal but folks keep trying to say that Martin was the thug. It was i who noted your style ; blind bigotry initially.

          • Demsci

            I think you misrepresent Gufo’s case; those actions of a ridiculous few, who loudly proclaim to act in the name of Islam, lead him to examine the influence of Islam on followers.

            Only from criticizing Islam he goes on to blame Muslims. On the understanding that religion is a choice, not a race.

            Consider that the Quran-Sunnah, the MIG (Most Important Guidelines)-texts of Muslims, are “faulty, obsolete, too ambiguous, vague” and that they have the bad influence on many, but not all, of it’s most ARDENT followers, to become totalitarian and violent, killing many people innocent under democratic law.

            AND that religion and following MIG-texts that are proven thus faulty, are responsibilities, choices of MUSLIMS (and all people).

            Consider that “considering persons innocent until proven guilty” can, in a dangerous situation, be suicidal and higly irresponsible. Tolerant people must be intolerant to intolerant people because of the danger that these intolerants eventually killing all tolerance.

            and Quran-Sunnah (QS) is so faulty that it is interpreted as INTOLERANT by hundreds of millions of it’s followers. And that while QS to countless Muslims TRUMPS our democratic constitutions and laws. Bad and dangerous choice of them for us!!!

          • Mary

            Jews did not co-exist peacefully with the Muslims. It was Muslims who instituted the wearing of the Star of David for Jewis. It was Moslems who were allowed to run their sheep and goats all over farms of Christians and Jews so that fertile parts of Africa were turned into desert. The fines for being non-Moslem were so prohibitive–and still are–that people gave up and became Moslem. At first they practiced in secret but eventually their children became part of it. As far as colonial thievary, what do you think Turkey and Istanbul used to be before they were taken over by the Moslems??? The whole Eastern Roman Empire collapsed because of Moslem conquest! Go read some real history.

          • Mitchell

            Wow Mary. Wow. You must by “real history” mean “made-up crap” you can’t find evidence of anywhere but in your head? I’m sorry but even Jews in Israel will let you know the UK created Israel out of Palestine because no one really wanted them in Europe. EUROPE! not Asia. But I digress. Just pause your comments.

          • Demsci

            Istanbul’s former names were Constantinopel and Byzantium.
            Constantinopel and Asia Minor were for centuries Christian and Greek-speaking. The Turks acquired it by warfare!

            Even you must know that is not “made-up-crap”. But yes, you rather digress. But how credible does it make you when you ignore such an obviously true argument from an opponent? Have you ever admitted any argument from any opponent?

            Just as you defenders, prosecutors can play that game, but does and should it convince real independent judges and juries?

          • Rob Porter

            Which people in the Muslim world or anywhere else did you “screw” out of democracy? Islam never has had a democracy because democracy is the antithesis fascist Islam. As a student of Middle Eastern history after the Muslim hoards went rampaging out of Arabia in 634AD, you are utterly clueless and talking a huge amount of utter crap. Try reading Robert Spencer’s excellent books on Islam and you might learn something provided you refrain from smoking some strong stuff while reading. You really are quite a comedian.

          • Demsci

            OK, you have strong arguments, Mitchell. And I am all for comparing, but it is a gruesome task. For one thing, all Muslims, Westerners and their leaders must be judged by the same standards as sane adult humans, who can change if they want.

            Perhaps of late you Islam-defender are challenged by the numbers that Muslims kill and maim, because that in this era tends to outperform that of all followers of other religions in total. But OK. Even a draw would still be fine for me, because what good is Islam then in prevention?

            And what good is Islam in positive way? Compared to the positive aspects of our Democracies; You can complain about democratic leaders they deposed, but to balance that; They were the ones who “imposed” democracy on Japan, South Korea, and there are now more or less # 118 democratic countries in the world. No democratic country ever attacked another. And leaders of them need a parliamentory majority. And yes, war IS diminishing per capita worldwide.

          • Demsci

            I ask you if you like most: Muslims and people
            on your side and dislike most “fundies of other religions and against
            you”
            Probably.

            And then: Which do you prefer: The bad Muslims or the Good Kuffars?
            If the latter, let us tolerate each other under democratic system and make
            peace, and fight together the bad Muslims and the bad “fundies” you
            complain about. But by using the same identical standards. So only criminals
            and terrorists, not mere critics of Islam.

          • Rob Porter

            This demonstrates what a complete liar and idiot you are: “Most terror attacks HERE are by Christians” Since 9/11, all over the world, more than 25,000 murderous jihadist Muslim attack have taken place.
            He has good reason to dislike Muslims, they are the only ones going around the world decapitating and crucifying Christians, in Iraq beheading, cutting in half and burying alive Christian children, turning Yazidi, Christian and Kurd women into sex slave – all justified in the crappy Qur’an, a book that is little more than hate literature. As to your comments about Lebanon, it just more fabricated nonsense and pack of lies.
            As to ‘reason’, it is beyond your capability.

          • Tommy Guns

            Mitchell, where do you live? Maybe we could discuss this ‘man to man’, you little fucking worm!!!

          • Mitchell

            HAHAHAHA!! I’m a 6’4″ 200 lb “worm” 41 years old & you really don’t wanna do something that silly without a referree and a ring. BUT, I am in Bedford-Stuyvesant.

          • No Quarter

            Tommy Guns, mitch the worm can not meet you one on one as that is against the Islamic tradition for a few reasons. 1. You are a man, so he can only meet you 4 or 5 to 1. 2. If you were a women then he could beat the living crap out of you ( the Koran gives specific instructions on how to beat a women) and put a tent over you to hide his cowardly actions, or rape you, call you a whore and have you stoned to death. Tommy remember, worm is a victim coming into this and will be a sniveling little turd victim on the way out. Lets all do something radical: Don’t talk to mitch the muzzy worm and then he will dry up and blow away.

          • Demsci

            Mitchell, thanks for arguing. I don’t think your judgment of Gufo is correct. For one thing; being Muslims is not about race (as Jews and Blacks are races). And Gufo it seems just does not like the religion they chose and are accountable for; Islam.

            whereas you are very strong with comparing and showing us that that which Muslims did bad, other humans did bad too. In a way that I at least cannot refute, still …

            We can compare back when we see anti-Western propaganda and compare all the bad intentions, deeds and RESPONSIBILITIES of Westerners to those of the Muslims and ….

            That would leave us with a draw between our democratic system and the Islamic system. Then Allah did not bring anything exceptionally good through MOhammed nor did he prevent anything specifically bad! Maybe If there was something good, it seems by now to be totally expired? And not a peep from Allah anymore, since the “seal of the prophets” 1400 years ago.

            On top of that, when we view positive statistics we can challenges Muslims that we arguably outperform Islam. And where does that leave the Muslims as being “the best of people”?

            Your comparing is ultimately doing you no good.

          • No Quarter

            Demsci, Again Well said! mitch the muzz is just hear for fun and to razz us. His arguments are typical of all muzztards. They are beautiful people except they never show their faces, they are so peaceful except on new years eve in France when the traditionally set parts of the city on fire and in Sweden where they have ruined a beautiful people and country, and England where there are no go zones and rampant criminal sex gangs. Oh and how they treat their own women ? Yes they are the best mitch, how do I join up? I can’t wait to be one! Must I go on? mitch FU and FO, go somewhere and die you a-hole.

          • joker

            Mitchell are you for real, after reading all your postings. Seek a shrink or the nearest cliff to jump off. Do us a little favour, please.

          • guy

            Israel has the right to defend ..it’s not terror, stupid Mitchel!!!

          • Mitchell

            You sound like those who defended Jim Crow and apartheid.

          • Demsci

            As defender you excel in “comparing”, in saying: “you are using double standards, because you accuse “a great number of people” and “one religion” while the other people and religions do and have the same “faults, mistakes, deeds, influence”.

            But “we” come from Democratic system, freedoms, golden rule, scientific openmindedness and curiosity and rule of law, maintenance of human right, women’s rights.

            We judge this system as a better alternative to Islam and it’s state-organisation. And while it is hard to “win” by comparing the negative statistics between Democratic Loyalists and Muslims, it is easy to “win” by comparing positive statistics, like longevity, prosperity, health care, freedom, happiness, education etc.

            When you compare, we can compare back and:

            Muslims seem to be stupid to believe that Allah sent Mohammed for the benefit of mankind when other systems so much outperform Islam!

          • Mitchell

            My point is this, being a Muslim isn’t wrong any more than being fricken Hindu or Christian. These are people. Some would be good. Some will not be. As far as systems of government, the United States is not a bastion of freedom. We just say we are. Iran has the ayatollah since we didn’t like the fact that Mossedeq was elected and summarily overthrown. the US & UK were angry Iran didn’t allow them ridiculous powers with jeans resources. Nearly all of these “problems” are self-inflicted. To blame Muslims for choosing their own way of life after the democracy many of them chose after colonialism didn’t suit US/UK is NOT spreading freedom. It’s imperialism. Weather it works or not isn’t our damn business.

          • Demsci

            Ok, I admit it is rather immoral to impose one’s will upon populations for prophit.

            What I point out to you is that that is a potentially a fault of ALL HUMANS. of all powerful humans, it can be shown abundantly in history. and it is terribly unfair if you only select the Westerners for this fault, and not the Muslims. Even more so, when both are guilty, but you only consider the Westerners capable of change, and not the Muslims, and if that is why you don’t criticize THEM.

          • Mitchell

            I don’t criticize them HERE. but we are in full agreement that it’s human nature. Pamela geller and ilk wish to act holier than thou and pretend there isn’t a human amongst them and Muslims as a WHOLE are sub-human. I can almost garuntee this has been said or implied in this comment section.
            This is what my problem is with right wing religious folks. I’ve stated in this section that they are no diff than the shariah law-expounding wahabbist they believe are invading and trying to force school children to emulate.
            That gas been my major talking point.

          • Demsci

            you are entitled to your opinion, stating it here gets you at least plenty attention, albeit in strong opposition and condemnation.

            Noooo, the people here are much different from killer, violent, mysogynistic Wahhabis’, Pamela Geller is a defender of Democratic system and womens rights and she has no blood on her hands.

            You should hear the other side, the Muslims, in their own countries, websites, much more vitriolic than she will ever be.

            If you don’t can’t protest against and change the one side, that of the Muslims, it is highly unfair that you DO protest against the other side.The Islamic side censors and bans, she let’s you speak here. appreciate that!

            I say let them both BE. what is it with people who want to censor “hate speech”? (From the one side, oblivious of the hate speech of the other side). Respond by good speech (as you do a bit) not with censorship.

            In internet, media, tv let people hurt feelings, don’t protect hurt feelings, only hurt bodies! Who gets to decide what hurts feelings??? This Pamela frequently asks.

            And don’t you by now know Westerners have plenty of love speech for Muslims also? So is love speech all that is to be allowed???

          • Mitchell

            Many people here are not Christian wahabbist. I actually do defend Christians when others act as if every one is out to kill a muslim, keep a woman down Etc. Wahabbi is as rediculous a doctrine as hard-line atheism assuming if you have a religion you’re sinply stupid and delusional.
            You have found me out however- I did come to the comments looking for rediculousness to refute! However I much prefer this current discourse to the other. We may not agree, but there’s more of an exchange without so many exclamation points and my snark.
            I’m still confused as to how Geller is thought of as anything more than a hate monger. Hate takes a lot of work and never makes you a better person. She, Spencer and co. have very little to go on and basically lie to achieve their points. They are aware most will not or have little time to investigate who and what our enemies are. They influence those who mistakenly vandalize Sikh temples and brutalize peaceful people based on these ideas.
            Sure she has a forum. But I’ve seen Spencer speak on how to keep Muslims from doing ANYTHING here. Literally wanting to have them all watched electronically despite their threat level as a whole to be smaller than say, the next white Christian guy you know. There are folks farther out in the pasture who want Muslims no matter what to be exiled and jailed. Father out in the pasture, but close enough to have a lean with Spencer & Geller.

          • Demsci

            Super-interesting stuff. I disagree to be sure, but plenty to think about I read from you. YOur facts and comparing are for me mostly irrefutable, you do that quite well.

            I like to defend Spencer and Geller though. Hate-mongering is no problem and very useful. The other side is much more vitriolic to the Jews than Sp. & G to the Muslims. Sp-G. are IMO only fair to the Muslims.

            And they have their opinions and twists but their facts about doctrine and behavior of Muslims are simply true and irrefutable,

            they can make mincemeat of Islamic or leftist opponents in fair debate. And it is because defending Islam is so undoable, Islam is such a mess, the beliefs and behavior of Muslims is so abominable. Not all, mind you, but still that of millions of them.

            And I see Muslims as CHOOSING Islam, so responsible for THAT choice, Muslim is not a race. And verbally attacking Islam, in contrast to verbally attacking humans is what Sp-G and David Woods and Wilders primarily do and that is sooooo very good. Forget about “hate” problems and “hurt feelings”. Westerners give plenty of love speech for Muslims too, yourself included.

            And it is so that all Muslims have to do is ditching Islam to get out of the hate-speech. OR they can moderate their interpretation of Islam.

            Just treat Muslims as sane adult responsible humans, please. Exactly as much as Westerners.

          • Mitchell

            Muslim politicians and Palestinians as a whole have a problem with the government of Israel, not jews. Iran has a Jewish member of parliament and the reason The Mossad can damage Iran so effectively is because Iran has refused to prevent Jews from traveling freely back and forth between Israel & Iran (by now you can see I’ve read WAY too much about Persia).
            Now of course, there is backlash toward the actual Israeli populace, which is what happens here when conflict arises.
            It’s the problem of being deathly afraid of black guys despite a white guys being the most dangerous set of people a white guy will ever encounter. In our heads black guys are violent and ignorant…well, except “that one guy we know”. In truth, “that one guy we know” is more of a representative of black guys then the one we make up in our heads and fed to us via satellite. To the point we ignore that our neighbor shot his wife but feel like blacks are the constant threat.
            This is why this hate speech is detrimental. I’ve of course been watching Spencer’s debates. In these he lies (which he does frequently in his books) and he is skilled at cherry picking terrible instances of Islamic terrorism against mon-muslims. I’ve yet to see a muslim enclave where they even ask if you’re muslim, yet he hasn’t priven any exist. Birmingham is still quite nice. If he didn’t lie and only exaggerated I would have less problem. Spencer & Geller equate Islam with violence regardless and looking through his body of work it seems to me he would love a theocratic state if it were orthodox Greek. Even the fatwas against terrorism is not enough for them, they want Muslims to decry their religion as a whole and preferably convert.

          • Mitchell

            That was a tad convoluted, maybe all my replies are going back n forth on an iPhone!

          • Demsci

            Respect for your reply, thanks. “Hate-speech” may have it’s downsides, and, oh, oh, Spencer-Geller may be twisting the truth. And you see THAT. As usual by now, your facts are hard to refute.

            But …. this is a big, but interconnected world, speaking English much, and using the internet a lot. In this big world: The lying propaganda coming from the Islamic World is as or probably much more hateful and deceitful as anything Sp-G say, including with the tactics you mention, the “enemy” uses these massively and shamelessly, IMO.

            Now, in view of the Islamic Hate-speech, which you DON’T address, which you CAN’t address, it is, I am sorry to say UNFAIR of you to loath and bad-mouth the one side but not the other.

            I don;t know how effective you are against the other side of course, but their vitriolic, deceitful Hate-speech should make you tolerate both theirs and Spencer-Gellers Hate-speech. Tolerate or fight both in equal measure, and I say tolerate.

            On top of that our Democratic side practices no censorship. The other side, of political Islam, does.

            And, as I said, there is so much “love-speech”, “defense-speech” from Westerners for Muslims too. It is in all the media, from the most important leaders, like Obama, Cameron, Hollande, Merkel.

            So if that hate-speech is detrimental, why do people like you not be all that love-speech be as beneficial? And, I mean, how could you have missed it???

            Again; allow all “hatespeech”, it has advantages too, but whatever you do, treat both sides with the same standards, and count both the BAD and the GOOD speech.

          • Mitchell

            The hate speech from that side doesn’t reach our eyes and ears without massive amounts of assistance, believe me they need it in order to do so. We are also practicing censorship. Which i assume we both somewhat appreciate. While Europeans and Americans are shown beheaded, what about the non-conforming Muslims, Iranian fighters? Lipstick-wearing women? And by God the Kurds! They are being massacred at any chance by DAESH. DAESH has a social media arm of which we only get pieces of before banned from our servers. Only the worst hate-Mongers get a partial voice on our free-speach loving media. CAIN isn’t trying to trick us anymore than the fatwa against Al Qaeda & DAESH. Why do we not hear about this without having to pry open the sources from our nations news channels? Even MSNBC is only somewhat journalistic and pro-free speech in this issue. RT is literally a pinko channel and they have better coverage than most of our domestic channels, explicitly telling you when you are listening to opinion verses news. While Fox may be bad, it’s only Following a trend.
            I don’t have anything against hating DAESH. None. To be frank: “F!%@ them all. DAESH is not Islam as a whole, and even Al-Qaeda is a bit afraid of them. Add all these extremists together (aside from Chechnyan, Palestinian & Malaysian Muslims who fight oppressive regimes) and you have a very tiny fraction of Islam. If the chants on this page was to kill DAESH, invade Saudi Arabia (which I would not like, but understand) or find Boko Haram and deal with them directly Id have my fist raised with you.

          • Mitchell

            Thank you for provoking thought in your last few replies specifically on the hate speech issue. I did have to think about that point and will continue to mull it over.
            I’ll be closing this chat (possibly!) after your reply but I appreciated your thoughts.

          • Demsci

            Now wait a minute, I feel that chosing a religion, at the end of the day, is a CHOICE, for every adult sane human, not something one is born with. Do you agree or not?

            Now, being a Muslim entails following Quran-Hadiths-Sira. Now, I say bluntly to you that literally millions of thousands of Muslims INTERPRET that QHS as being Supremacist and violent in diverse ways. And ISIS and Taliban and Ayatollahs and many self-confessed Muslims show that.

            And we know other Muslims INTERPRET QHS differently.

            But that means QHS is FAULTY, FLAWED, multi-interpretable, so also PRONE to supremacist violent interpretation. and therefore Muslims who STILL choose QHS for MIG-texts; MOst Important Guidelines, are to be held accountable for such Flawed, multi-interpretable texts without offering an official BETTER interpretation.

            They endangers us all by not distinguishing with a good interpretation from faulty texts from the proven bad interpretation by totalitarian terrorist Muslims.

            Think; how van immutable texts, 1200-1400 years old, NOT BE obsolete, incomplete, vague, contradictory, ambiguous.

            What idiots cling to them unconditionally and raw, unchanged?

          • Mitchell

            Do you believe that Biblical teaching is just as obsolete? Christians have many interpretations, many more in fact.
            Belief is belief. As a non religious (not an atheist) and an avid researcher of Abrahamic religions with a focus on Christian & Islamic teachings I’ve noticed the parallels of Judaism & Islam and the divergence from the two with Christianity. I am aware that jews view the other two as blasphemous, as Christianity views Islam despite Islam not having a basis to truly call the previous incarnations the same. (Although there has been a shift of thinking in the perception towards Christianity). The U.S. Protection of Israel is still a wierd situation considering the anti-Jewish attitude of many right-wingers. Bell, it’s four am and I’m rambling in this last post so I will take my behind to sleep right about now. I look forward to your response.

          • Demsci

            Quite frankly, yes, Biblical teaching as well. But it gave us a good foundation.

            I see the world and American-Israeli cooperation through a “democratic lens”, and that makes it and Christianity and Judaism OK by me.

            Islam is different; it is prone to totalitarian, anti-democratic, supremacist, violent interpretation. But that’s just me.

          • Mitchell

            I don’t think its the Religious foundation but rather the opportunity available to create a state with little interference. Ethiopia has been Christian longer than anywhere else on earth. It goes back and forth since the second WW due to western meddling in its affairs. I see Israel as an apartheid state. Iran is one of the greatest countries to exist and has its problems stemming from the 50s interventions by us & Britain. There would be no Ayatollah without that regime change. I’ve been to Libya and that used to be a country that was pretty damn nice. Better even in rural areas than Jamaica, a white Christian-run western country. Every country has its BS. I say leave them to it.
            Most other countries have no capability of threatening the US directly. Unless it is Russia, France, UK, China, etc their ability to fight us is negligible. That is, unless we occupy them..
            Let America work itself for a good decade or three, then meddle less in foreign affairs that only seem to take away from our greatness.

          • Philbert McNutt

            Wow. “Christians” do all that, eh?

            Funny, isn’t it, that we are a secular nation – except when we bomb muslums, then we become a Christian nation…….I guess we switch back to secular mode – after the bombings, right?

          • Mitchell

            We are secular like Turkey is secular. We are christian like Turkey is muslim.

          • Philbert McNutt

            Really? When was the last time Turkey had a non-muslim Prime Minister?

            The US has had more than a couple of presidents that are no more Christian than you are.

          • Mitchell

            Wow. Considering every president despite being accused of atheism or laughably Islam has been Christian in the US I’m not sure wtf you mean. This country is 72% christian. Turkey is 98.8% muslim. Of course there’s never been a Christian PM.

          • Mitchell
          • joker

            What is wrong in attacking Muslims?

          • All muslims read and live by the same stupid book..

          • Rob Porter

            Anyone who takes seriously your version of the Bible would do so out of pure ignorance and gullibility. Evident is that either you haven’t read these book or took nothing from them into your little mind. That you say that you’ve “yet to see major differences” between the Qur’an and the Bible, let alone these other books? Evidently you were smoking something very strong because you haven’t a clue what you are talking about or are a first rate liar.

          • Mitchell

            If you don’t take the KJV seriously then that’s fine. I prefer Coptic and Orthodox over KJV which is where I used that verse from Matthew. I don’t trust the changing of context in KJV and certainly do not in modern versions.

          • Demsci

            OK, agree, it should always go both ways. Compare to your heart’s content. And challenge us to use the same standards for every religion and their followers.

            When that is done we finally can compare back. and compare for example American behavior in war and conclude that the Americans may well have been much more humane than Mohammed was.

            We also may ask: What good did MOhammed bring mankind that not was/ is brought by other religions/ lifestyles/ humans? Or is Mohammed’s message now thoroughly obsolete?

            Allah simply MUST have meant to improve mankinds fate, by sending MOhammed, otherwise what was HIS point? But when we COMPARE, like you above do, only this time to find some unique good of Islam,

            then we can find NOTHING uniquely good about Islam, certainly not now anymore.

            As we did not protest your comparing, you cannot now protest against our comparing.

            So why did Allah send Mohammed, want Islam? Why would Allah want it to triumph? We can find no good reasons, and neither can you.

          • No Quarter

            Very well said Demsci!!!!

          • Demsci

            Thanks!!

          • Mitchell

            If I compared christian countries to muslim countries income with dead even for all. Easily. If you consider this as a Christian country then shooting people that have not and indeed COULD not harm us is wrong. Think about it. Saddam had no evil plan for Israel, but he did have designs on Kuwait & Iran. (Both theocracies). If Saddam even had WMDs what would that mean? The infatada HATED him as a man who’s laws were based on western law. He didn’t spinsor terror in the west but he funded democracy groups in Iran. Now we bomb them and ppl who thought we saved them now pick up arms because we bring in is contractors to do work that is available in Iraq?

          • Demsci

            With hindsight, sure, the American government made big mistakes, but more out of inexperience than out of malice. I can see the merits in your analysis.

            But here comes; You seem to have elevated expectations of the American Government, which really REFLECTS the American majority. And you seem to see them capable of change. Because think about it; you would not criticize children or animals, who are incapable of change.

            Now why don’t we criticize Muslims in the same way? Please do not insult Muslims by having lowered expectations of them and considering them incapable of change. You seem to do that unconsciously.

            Take Saddam; he was taunting and opposing a superpower, how stupid, would YOU do that? He oppressed the majority Shiites in Iraq and the Kurds, both of whom America RESCUED.

            Saddam was no innocent, child or animal. AND he drove half the world crazy. Not to mention hundreds of thousands to their deaths. The minute he was deposed Iraqi’s started looking for disappeared relatives in HIS jails. Well, they did NOT REAPPEAR.

          • Mitchell

            Oh as far as Saddam taunting a superpower, that didn’t happen. It was debunked in 03 literally the week it was “reported” but still found traction. Saddam only got belligerent when he realized the united states was determined to screw him despite him “asking” and getting permission of sorts to take Kuwait.

            Literally we surrounded retreating Baathist troops 6 mos in and slaughtered them. There are news stories and first hand accounts from vets.

          • Demsci

            Your facts are hard to refute. But it is easy to insert more facts. in our favor. In the end you and we draw, or we win.

            For instance; Saddam Hussein had power of the 25 million Iraqi’s. He was ruthless, screwed them, he slaughtered them.

            Now you point out what the Americans may or may not have intended and done to him.

            But how is he better than the Americans? He is, if anything more guilty. He and his clique got what they gave and deserved. But you, you ONLY criticize the Americans, who, again, did rescue the Shiites from Sunni minority oppression, but get no thanks for it from ungrateful Shiite Muslims.

          • Mitchell

            I wouldn’t consider Saddam great, but worse imo is DAESH after American occupation. Our occupation included draining the Iraqi economy, then our own because we thought we could plunder unopposed. While a few companies made billions we lost better opportunity to have a good light shine on us, rebuild Iraq in a stable setting and possibly bring a level of peace to the always prickly Shia/Sunni overlap. Maybe. Maybe? Lol not sure. But robbing them both certainly didn’t help!
            I do feel that it’s not any of our business and we have things to improve here and more than enough resources to fuel ourselves as we find better methods at home.

          • Philbert McNutt

            You have read “Christian Law”?

            Where might one find this “Christian Law”?

          • Mitchell

            It’s called “Canon Law”. But for you Protestants, Mike Huckabee may provide you with some more King James-y style law soon!

          • Philbert McNutt

            Canon Law? I’m sorry, I’m a dissenter.
            What does “Canon Law” have to do with me, or anyone not associated with whatever “canon” you are referring to?

            I would wager that at least 75-85% of the professing Christian in this country, wouldn’t know a canon law if it slapped them across the face., nor do I know a single person that follows “Canon Law”, quotes it, has read it, nor have I ever heard anyone reference it.

            Your rather pathetic attempt to smear/implicateChristianity is laughable. Huckabee? Does he own a pen? Can he write executive orders? Didn’t think so.

            Care to fail again?

          • Mitchell

            lol you do know that before this millennium many Muslims were as familiar with sharia law as you are with Canon.
            The delving into shariah law that differs in each and every place in which its practiced, is largely due to us invading Afghanistan. It didn’t exist in Iraq until we removed Saddam and allowed foreign fighters to co-opt the country.

        • Mitchell

          It does not. That’s a reduction. It does state this in a longer form; “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

    • Gufo

      Jesus said “love your enemy”… nobody likes that, so it must taken out! But a pedophile psychopathic warlord said “kill your enemy” and that’s ok, respect bro!

      • Mitchell

        Jesus also said to kill disobedient children. So there’s that.

        • Gufo

          In the old testament, it is recommended to punish disobedient children. What version of the new testament have you read? The muslim version?

          • Mitchell

            No. I don’t read revised editions. And Islam actually wouldnt change a word of text any more than a jew would. Only Christians have hundreds of revised editions changing the language. You can; learn Amharic, Greek, or Amaraic. Then find a closer to the truth translation and yes. Jesus said kill them. In Matthew. As punishment. Remember, Jesus was a jew, OT law was what he followed.

          • Gufo

            The fact that Jesus was a Jew does not explain anything, it doesn’t make him a good or a bad person. The fact that Christians and Jews are NOT raping children, taking sex slaves, killing their own children and women, destroying everything that embodies beauty, and all the other gifts from the religion of peace BECAUSE their pedophile prophet did it before does make a difference, though. Western civilization went through phases, from “let’s do whatever the scriptures tell us” which was exactly like everything the muslims are doing now, from let’s kill disobedient people and free thinkers, to “maybe something in our scriptures is crap, we should not govern a country based on that”. Where and when did a similar process take place in ISLAM? You can translate from any language, but killing your enemy, beating up your wife, raping children (sorry, “marrying” them), slaying the infidels, defining people like “descendants of apes and pigs” … honestly, what’s another translation? With variations, most of Western laws and constitutions are based on the 10 commandments, like it or not, and they represent a humanization of humans, like it or not.

          • Mitchell

            I don’t know about you but Christians and Jews are raping children. See it in the news.
            In fact there’s the orthodox tradition for Jews to circumcise a little boy then suckle the blood from the infant. IJS.

          • Rob Porter

            Again you are talking utter crap! This is the Bible according to Mitchell. Do us a favour, quote the book, chapter and verse. In fact you cannot because you are making up this pathetic nonsense.

          • Mitchell

            Jesus is quoted as taking the entire OT as it is with no change. Matthew 5:17. This means if you’ve eaten pork, shellfish, cut your hair as a man, touched your wife during estrous, been a bad slave you have sinned greatly.
            I could go on but you actually keep talking about bob “Jihad Watch” Spencer as if he has writing that was worth the read.

          • Philbert McNutt

            Mitchell – Posing as an wannabee expert, while being totally cluess, seems to be your gig, doesn’t it?

            You appear to be completely unaware of the differences between the Jewish Law, and the Law of Love.

            You also seem to oblivious to the fact that Christians are under no obligation to keep Jewish Law.

            In addition, citing Jewish dietary, civil, or ceremonial law, in your rather pathetic attempts to denigrate Christians, is an indictment of your utter failure to understand who Jesus was, and what he did.

            BTW, the Allah that the moslem profess to worship, is not the same as al-Āb – God the Father. If you read the Bible (as opposed to just quoting verses you saw on Mama Jones), you might recognize that Jesus used the term, “Abba father” when praying.

            Your ignorance, when viewed alongside your arrogance, would be rather amusing, if your “facts” weren’t so woefully wrong.

          • Mitchell

            If you reject the OT then you reject Jesus who kept the OT. He believed and lived by keeping all aspects of the Torah. The ot ; the torah is translated as “The Law of God”. I find most superchristians only are aware of their versions translation as told to them by their pastor.

          • Philbert McNutt

            Wow. Nice propaganda.

            One presumes you have no idea what Jesus said or did?

            “superchristians”? Really?

            A simple reading of the New Testament would show you that gentiles are not under obligation to the Jewish Law. In fact, a little study in the Old Testament, should easily help you understand that it was the Hebrews/Jews that covenented with God, and bound themselves to the Law.

            Care to reveal any more of your ignorance?

          • Mitchell

            So in your belief, Jesus & company were eating pigs, had nice haircuts, possibly tatted up and telling people that GOD was wrong before, but he’s cool now? If he did anything like remove obligations to say; Genesis why is the Torah still considered at all?

          • Philbert McNutt

            What? Obligations to Genesis? What obligations to Genesis?

            My belief? You try to put idiotic words in my mouth – “Jesus & company were eating pigs…..”, then want to know about “obligations to say; Genesis”

            It is pretty obvious that you have know clue what the Bible says.
            You read somewhere what someone else claims they think it might say – if you read it under a full moon with a load on – and that makes you an expert.

            Mostly, Mitchell, it makes you look like an uneducated shill for atheism.
            I have no idea of your education – but your arguments sound like those of an opinionated 8th grader.

          • Mitchell

            basically my entire life is history of abrahamic religions. If you think im dead wrong about all of this then you should defiantly dismiss Robert Spencer- who uses his training to lie to the easily deceived.

          • Philbert McNutt

            You failed to answer the question.

            Wearing those big floppy shoes does not excuse your pathetic response.

          • Mitchell

            Good luck in your delusions McNutt. I’m moving on from your posts, as they make me question your sentience and make my eyebrows hurt with what you spew.

          • Rob Porter

            Robert Spencer knows a hundred time more than you know do about Islam or Christianity, and yes he is worth reading. Your comments about Jesus and what he said are just appallingly ignorant. Your interpretation of Matthew 5:17 equally so. Jesus established a new order and said as much and if you don’t know that are not in a position to pretend you are an authority on these matter when so obviously you are not.

          • Mitchell

            Spencer isn’t even considered in any religious studies circles. Any more so than Abu Bakar.

          • Rob Porter

            Comfort yourself with that thought, Spencer is the leading Western authority on Islam in the West, and his books are testament to it. He is not the laughable mumbling, politically correct and dhimmified fool such as those sham ‘experts’ we are fed by CNN, CBC, BBC and other retarded tv stations.

          • Mitchell

            If by “leading” you mean “marginal fringe” then yes. He leads the fringe in his views. The only reason anyone heard of him is because of outlandish reactionary screams from the right-wing kids table.
            Has Spencer mentioned the fatwas declaring AGAINST Al-Qaeda and DAESH? If he has im sure he’s framed it as if they’re doing it while wringing their collective Semitic hands in evil glee, waiting for poor America to take the bait.
            News will be skewed. The stations you mentioned? Sure, but you forgot Fox & MSNBC.

          • Rob Porter

            Why don’t you read his books instead of talking the infantile and ignorant nonsense you do in an effort to appear an authority.

          • Mitchell

            I have read two of his books. Truthfully I also read up on him. So if it’s infantile to know thy author, I will continue to be so. Maybe you should read up on Spencer. It’s his own fault no one takes him seriously in religious circles.
            Spencer and Sennels are basically the same read with different authors. Have you read Sennels? I’ve only gone into one book but it read like fan fiction of Christoph Meiners.

          • Rob Porter

            Your comments about Sennels and Spencer expose you as someone not to be taken seriously. You do not know these authors and that much is evident. In videos I have watched Spencer debate a number of imams and other Muslims and not once seen him bested by these blustering fools. I have watched former Muslims, Dr Waffa Sultan, take apart imams for their silly, shallow arguments and seen former Muslim, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, do similarly in debates. God gave me eyes to see and ears to hear and from Islam I see and hear pure evil. Their murderous conduct in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Mali, Nigeria, Somalia, and many other countries is testament to the murderous, hate-filled depravity of Islam and I don’t need further proof that it is a rotten to the core, depraved ideology without any merit.

          • Demsci

            Quite right, Rob, I’ve seen those debates. To be honest, once a person knows so much about Islam as Robert Spencer, it becomes easy to beat Muslims in debate.

            The position of the Islam-critic is so much easier in comparison with that of the Islam-defender, because of the contents of Quran-Hadiths-Sira and the behavior and declarations of Muslims, recorded by MEMRI-TV and others.

            That incoherent, contradicting, obsolete, vague, ambiguous, incomplete “religion” is so hard to understand and validate that all who defend it, have a distinctive disadvantage against all those attack it’s many weak points.

          • Rob Porter

            Very well said, Demsci.

          • Rob Porter

            One thing is evident, you speak out of thorough ignorance. Robert Spencer who knows a considerable amount more than you will ever know, long ago revealed that the Qur’an has been altered and that there is not just one version. I’ve read a good amount of the Qur’an and regard it a disgusting book for psychopaths and other morons. I’ve read all the way through Matthew and yet again you are talking crap.

          • Mitchell

            There are several translations. The canonized version we see today is from 65-hundred-something. Muhammad died about 20 years beforehand. This is the one version that has multiple translations. Unlike the KJV which is an abridged version of the Catholic bible in Latin from most likely the Sinaiticus in Greek which is one of FOUR ancient versions of the Gospel.
            Spencer, who is of Orthodox faith is a reactionary who says that Islam is inherently terroristic and that despite the supremacist nature of Christianity and Judaism alike is basically a bigot. Of which I have a tad bit of an understanding because he is a child of Christian refugees. He may have been a communist as well. Which is wierd for a religious man.
            So yes. I do know more, I’m not blinded by bigotry and fear.

          • Demsci

            You judge Robert Spencer a “bigot”. I can see him as a “prosecutor of Islam/ part of the Muslims”. With people like you as “defender” and with readers as judge and jury. This would mean his job is not to be objective/ impartial.

            I think it is OK to compare, as you do. And when criticism is on Islam it is at first OK to compare it and it’s conseguences with Christianity and Judaism and their consequences. That sounds logical.

            But when we ask; What influence does Islam have on it’s followers? From our democratic human rights golden rule standpoint “we” or “many” say; it has many bad influences and few good ones.

            So mankind would have a much better fate without it. And Allah did not “instruct Mohammed” to improve mankinds fate, because Mohammed in effect worsened mankinds fate.

            Allah could have found many better ways to improve mankinds fate and many humans have done a much better job to improve mankinds fate than Mohammed.

          • Mitchell

            I don’t see Islam or Judaism as better than Christianity. I see them pretty equally good individually and used as a tactic to keep people in conflict. I’ve realized that most politicians are not terribly religious unless it suits them. Yes…even the muslim ones. Like I said, most of the people I know are christian and are pretty decent people. I know others as well but I only come across bigotry and spencer references from those who don’t really meet “others” who happen to be muslim. In rural RI folks were wary of the Senegalese Muslims and thought they all escaped some war of famine. Which is hilarious in hindsight – considering all were rather wealthy and those who were citizens preferred McCain over Mitt.

          • joker

            Mitchell do yourself a favour and take a long bath or throw yourself off a nearby cliff.

          • Desmsci

            Glad you don’t see Islam as better. anyway, I view Democracy as “better” than totalitarianism. And Islam seems to help Totalitarianism more and hinder Democratic system more than both Judaism and Christianity.

            As I said, Robert Spencer does not need to be objective, all-inclusive, he’s more like a very good useful “prosecutor”.

          • Philbert McNutt

            Mitchell – Telling obvious lies doesn’t help your argument. You end up looking like a fool – whether you are, or not.

          • Mitchell

            Geller is a liar. You read this article which was spun out of proportion and made into a lie.
            All groups are killing each other. If you or I were shot today, it’s most likely by a white Christian man – not a bearded Koran thumping wahabbist.
            (Unless you’re a black or spanish guy, then it’d be a black or spanish Christian guy)

          • Philbert McNutt

            “If you or I were shot today, it’s most likely by a white Christian man – not a bearded Koran thumping wahabbist.”

            No. Just wrong. If you live in the US, you are most likely to be killed by a black man. African-Americans are the shooters in more than 52% of all gun related homicides.

            You paint with a rather broad brush when it comes to Christians. I doubt that most gang-bangers would describe themselves as Christians.

            Regardless, simple statistic mean that whites SHOULD be responsible for most gun related murders. That they are not, speaks volumes.

            It would be interesting to find out how many of the non-muslim mass murderers in this country, are atheist.

            Dylan Klebold, Charles Manson, John Gacy, and a few others come to mind.

          • Mitchell

            Actually blacks are 86% in all homicides. Involving black people. Whites kill each other at 82%. Someone doesn’t read the Department of Justice statistics and simply believes what the random racists tells him.
            You sir, have no foot to stand on with these last two rediculous statements. You’re completely ignorant of this topic, fearful, angry, small and a major bigot. You don’t know your own bible, you don’t have the ability to determine a demigogue from someone with knowledge and are a drain of my time.

          • Philbert McNutt

            You just can’t stop with the opiniated ignorance, can you?

            Here, a straight cut and paste from fbi.gov

            Of the offenders for whom race was known, 53.1 percent were black,
            44.6 percent were white, and 2.3 percent were of other races. The race
            was unknown for 4,224 offenders. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 3.)

            Now, even allowing for your ignorance, you can probably figure out that if 53.1% were black, the majority cannot be white – altho that might be asking too much of your massive brain.

          • Mitchell

            Obviously, bigots can’t do math.
            53% will still mean there are more whites committing crimes as they are the majority… Which is what I said. Did you look up to see who these percentages are offending? Our crime is as segregated as our cities. This means AGAIN; you are MOST likely to be killed by a white christian make as you are a white Christian male.

          • Philbert McNutt

            Speaking for yourself, are you – when you proclaim that “bigots can’t do math”?

            Sorry, Einstein. 53% off the total killers are black.

            I will make it simple for you. Pretend this is a 3rd Grade story arithmetic problem, okay?

            4224 murderers were convicted. Of those 4224,

            53.1% were of the African-American persuasion.
            1884 of the killers were Caucasian.
            97 convicted killers were of other races.
            How many black individuals were convicted of killing another human being?

            Extra credit question: Is 2243 a larger number than 1884?

            Super extra credit question: Is Mitchie’s arrogance greater than his ignorance?

          • Mitchell

            Maybe it’s math comprehension you’re missing.
            According to the U.S. dept of Justice most murders were intraracial with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites & 93% of black victims murdered by blacks. INTRA RACIAL.
            Once again; whites kill whites. You should be more afraid of a white guy who is 84% more likely than the fabled black thug that exists more as a minstrel character for record companies to exploit.
            Now, that the smoke has cleared from your frying brain, go be mad in a corner some where.

          • Philbert McNutt

            Can’t even own up to your own pathetic lies. Pretty sad stuff, Einstein.

            Your words, from an earlier post:
            “Whites ARE responsible for most murders in the US.”

            When I give the statistics to disprove your sentence, you deny it, then try to change directions. If that clown gig doesn’t work out, maybe you can try stand-up, eh?

            Still don’t know if your arrogance is greater than your ignorance. The race is too close to call.

            Keep those floppy shoes laced up tight, Mitchie…..in a race like that, we can’t have you falling down.

          • Mitchell

            Doubt most gangbangers would..? Um.. THE KLAN. I’m sorry, they’re terrorists. Latino gangs are very Catholic as is La Cosa Nostra, Jewish Gangs were Jewish, Irish gangs are catholic as well. Biker gangs range anywhere from Satanism to Protestantism…black Gangs tend towards Protestantism, few to Nationalist Islam like the NOI.
            Whites ARE responsible for most murders in the US. Basically by default! you do realize that in order to actually make up half the shootings the ENTIRE black population would have to be on a random killing spree every month? Your math doesn’t work mathematically. There are only 45 million of them, of which roughly less than half are male and most are baby boomers. You’re telling me that 11.2 million people are shooting over 50% of the time in a country of 320m?!? REALLY? Use your brain and stop parroting completely stupid bylines from racists.

        • Rob Porter

          Mitchell, you haven’t a clue what you are talking about. Jesus never said that that disobedient children should be killed, so do us favour, stop talking utter crap.

    • Mitchell

      “Allah” is the arabic word for “God”. It means God in Arabic. This means that Christians who speak Arabic say in Africa, Spain, Turkey, Arabia, Lebanon when they say “God” it’s said “Allah”. Like when Jews say “Yahweh”. So yes…while I believe in Separation of Church & State (Jesus was never in the Pledge btw) if they say it in a foreign language “God” will be said in that language. I ask, what language did they use last year?

      • New Americans should have to learn enough English to be able to pledge allegiance to the flag.

        • Mitchell

          My mother remembers this being said about Europeans.

      • Anticonservative

        Allah is interpreted as God but it is in reference to an entirely different deity. Muslims pray not to our Christian God but to their own. There are many ways to welcome foreigners into a new culture but when dealing with integral patriotic symbols such as the flag and oaths of allegiance they are best left alone. The onus is upon them to learn our language not the other way around.

      • Diversity Staffing Group

        Mitchell: Just an FYI, In Turkey they speak Turkish, not Arabic. They also use latin alphabet. ;-)

    • John Lockwood

      Idiot – using a foreign language, including Arabic, is nothing religious. In fact, they repeated the Pledge, which is already offensively loaded with god. Try reading for comprehension. Your hate clouds your brain.

  • JacktheRipper

    I’m for zero tolerance of these Islamo-nazi insults against our nation and values. We’re dealing with a people who have made INtolerance a religious quest, killing, torturing, and conquering as some sort of divine ordinance. It’s madness that we cater to these cultural parasites, these vicious destroyers of human rights. And this belligerent act by the school makes a mockery of all the pain and torment this demented ideology is causing around the world. I don’t give a rat’s butt what you call your god, if you are doing what islam is doing, then it’s evil, not to be respected, not to be honored.

    I don’t want to celebrate diversity if it includes murdering children and chopping heads in the name of allah, and hating Jews, raping children, and “honor” killing, slavery, and acts of senseless terror against innocents and women. This Andrew Zink kid thought he was being “fair” by honoring islam, but in doing that, he was being unfair to all the innocents slaughtered and tortured for that same allah he respected. Islam is an evil paradigm, if you feel the need to be fair to that, then you are person without integrity or honor.

    • roger

      No that’s not the reason.
      Andrew Zink feels a sense of power in provoking a ruckus over this because he knows that he has hold of the apron strings of the nasty little Leftist, minority rights groups that will protect him.
      Ask yourself this , if he wanted to be truly fair why do they always choose Islam to uphold and none of the other religions ( some of whom are significant in number )?

      • JacktheRipper

        He said that it was the “right thing to do,” and to me that’s synonymous with “fair.” Still thanks for the heads up, I went back and changed the wording in my post.

    • Mitchell

      considering Islamic terrorists tend to kill mostly muslims what the problem? Islam? I guess you’re mad at something but arent sure what. I bet youre scared of Iran getting a bomb, yet Iran has as a country hasnt ATTACKED ANOTHER SINCE THE 1700s. The only country to start a nuclear war is ours. We also have been at war for 230+ years. I love this country but its values are fucked in a way that people come here and have their values MATCH ours, not veer off anywhere – The stupid invasion of Iraq brought us here. We gave the stupid Infatada someone to shoot at. As we looted Iraq & Afghanistan the people who were glad we came started starving then took up arms. So we blame them for shooting us when we starved them? No critical thought could allow this.

      • JacktheRipper

        Oh, now wait just a minute. Even if it’s true muslims kill more muslims than infidels, that’s hardly a defense of islam. What moral pig pen are you rolling in?

        And yes, I AM afraid of Iran getting the bomb, I’m all too aware of how these antisemitic muslims think, they bear a genocidal hatred for Jews and infidels alike. Iran is a massive supporter of terrorism worldwide, and has whole-heartedly embraced the islamic agenda since the revolution, and that includes sharia law and human rights abuses. And I wouldn’t call the Iraq war “stupid.” Hussein was a gangster leader, a mass murderer, and a terrorist supporter. And Afghanistan was a safe haven for terrorists and their training camps, and at the time that was thought to include Bin Laden.

        It’s all too easy with the benefit of hindsight to say we should have done this or that. It’s simple for me: I honor America and its freedoms, but I despise islam and its evils. Anything that we might do that favors the former more than the latter is a service to humanity, even if it’s only by a hair.

        • Mitchell

          So billions of people are just inherently evil. We’ve established; bigotry. Saddam is one of dozens of dictators we supported. The Sauds, every country in the Americans save Canada, Iran, Lebenon, Israel, Taliban, Burundi, the list is REALLY long on our support of dictators. We’ve established; history doesn’t agree with you.
          Turkey and most other Islamic countries and countries with a large Islamic citizenship (like this one) have Muslims who go about their everyday lives like we do to some degree or another. Donyiu really think they “hate” freedom? How come they haven’t attacked Sweden or Norway? Brazil has much more open and free elections than we, as is Uganda. So im confused as to how you came to these conclusions based on a point zero plus percent of a population of billions.

          • mary76

            We’re all evil at some level; most of us just have laws to control our worst impulses.

          • Mitchell

            Then explain America. Rule of law, yet at our lowest crime rate in decades we are more dangerous crime wise than nearly all of the countries you would like to judge harshly. We literally kill each other off at a rate higher than many countries with insurrections.

          • Demsci

            You talk about negative statistics. From the UN. These are not just about occurrence, but also about evenly honest reporting from all countries. And that you cannot prove, so your accusation is groundless.

            And it is also about the public trusting the police to help in case of crime, and rape. And it might well be that in Islamic nations occurrence of rape is high, but trust in police of victims is low, deservedly so if victims get in trouble reporting the rape.

            Here you have the burden of proof also, in that you have to prove that victims trust police everywhere in the same measure. This makes your assertion even more groundless.

            Now, this was about negative statistic, which democratic nations admit, and dictatorial states hide and censor.

            But there also positive statistics, which every country likes to excel at, like longevity, prosperity, development, education etc. I daresay the democratic nations outperform the Islamic nations with these handsomely.

            But 2 things; Muslims are just as responsible sane adult humans as Westerners so why is that?
            And what IS ALLAH’s plan when HIS people are supposed to be the best?

          • Demsci

            No, no bigotry, Islam is a flawed, faulty MIG-texts, influencing billions of people. Islam has positive alternatives and those Muslims, on average, would behave “better” (more peaceful, tolerant) under the better alternatives than they do under Islam. On average. We argue.

            Yes, the West supported Saddam, because otherwise the bastard would have chosen for the sweethearts in the Kremlin. and because he fought the sweet ayatollahs.

            But when the West finally toppled Saddams regime, previously called a vicious dictator by Muslims, especially Shiites, THEN all of a sudden the West was lambasted as unjustly and stupidly invading Iraq! and killing innocents, as if those killed in their hundreds of thousands by Saddam were not. This shows hatred and bigotry among a part of the Muslims against the Western leaders, because no matter they do, they get condemnation from many Muslims and leftists.

            At this very moment, for 12 years already the Shiites in Iraq enjoy autonomy, which they did not have under Saddam. but not an ounce of gratitude we hear. And we all know that America withdrew, while most empires in history settled for conquest. How come? And has AMERICA ever attacked Sweden or Norway?

            We can settle for a draw, between Islam and our Democratic alternative, but that is the limit. And with a draw … the Islamic system, and so Allah, does NOT improve the human condition! So what good is Islam, is Allah?

      • Mary

        Iran attacked us when they took over our Embassy in 1979. That’s only 35 years ago. An embassy is recognized as a part of the nation it represents. Even the Soviets recognized that! The Hungarian Cardinal was able to take shelter in the US Embassy in Budapest for years.

        Islamic countries routinely attack western embassies, which shows how little of western culture they have imbibed.

        • Mitchell

          We removed their democratically elected leader 1953 and let the shah fleece Iran until the ayatollah overthrew him.
          Islamic pantries do NOT attack embassies. Terrorists who are largely international attack U.S. embassies. Mostly these entities were started due to western aggression. It’s not like this is hidden or obscure info people!

          • Demsci

            In 1953 the West protected South Korea from communism and today South Korea, with twice the population, has maybe a 100 times bigger economy, and much more prosperity and freedom for it’s citizens than North Korea, the enemy of the West.

            Iran is in a very bad shape, so who was worse; the shah or the ayatollah’s?

            You cherrypick facts, we can do the same. at best your comparing will get you a draw. At least on negative statistics, which are the ones the Democratic Nations own up to, through freedom of speech. While Iran, Islamic nations of course have censorship laws, so what a dishonest contest, thus enabling flawed comparisons.

            but I still got one for you; last year Iran (80 million people) executed # 600 people, after less than perfect trials, America? (4 times as many people) # 40. Not hidden or obscure info!

      • Demsci

        When “we” argue about the bad influence of Islam on it’s followers it is Islam-defenders (both Muslims and their sympathizers) that start to COMPARE. Often superbly well. Leading the argument into a draw. but no more, no advantage for Muslims, at least not when they are to be considered by the same standards of being sane adult humans, responsible for their own changes and capable of change, as Westerners are.

        So now, when Islamdefenders start criticizing Western actions and wars, we can compare back, all day long, and I guarantee you that the result will again be a draw, in the BEST case for Muslims. And we will not only then compare bad influence of both Western Democracies and Islamic culture, but also good influence of them both.

        And a draw means Allah brought nothing uniquely good through Mohammed or at least not in the time of Democratic systems, which seems to outperform Islamic culture, or at least equal it.

      • Demsci

        Consider wars since Sargon conquered the first nation-state, Akkad. Since then there always was war. Muslims conguered huge swathes of land, very violently, they then occupied, oppressed and taxed these territories. OK, OK, we did that too in a way, but my point is that THEY, the Muslims, did it too. It’s a human trait to war and to be stupid, not specifically a Western trait.

        Mohammed’s and his army killed opponents, Westerners do this. If you compare and defend Muslims, we can compare and defend Americans. And the best the Muslims can reach will be a draw. They cannot argue Muslims were innocent children nor that they were “the best of people”, we’ll take care of that, in honest discussion, if you let us, this is what we do best.

        But a mere draw should make Muslim more humble and tolerant.

        And again, in per capita numbers, since democratic systems began, are declining in numbers, Democracies don’t fight each other, only tyrants, and Saddam and the Taliban WERE TYRANTS!

        Democratic leaders are chosen and replaced, and their actions are subordinate under the law and parliamentary majority. This positive statistic many Islamic nations and certainly Iran, cannot match!

  • For the Christians in the school, that is against their beliefs to offer themselves to foreign idols.

    • Bonnetierre

      Christians have no rights in todays public schools.

      • Then go to court on the very same principles the moslems do and win.

  • SOON WE’LL BE REPLACING

    the 57 stars on our flag (sarc) with the Cresent and Star. And replace the Declaration of Independence with a Declaration of Submission.

    http://www.apollospeaks.com

  • NoTroll Zone

    One nation under Satan. Treason.

  • roger

    “However, state regulations do not mandate that the pledge be recited in a specific language. It recommends only specific wording”.
    Why in that case did Zink feel it necessary to use the word “Allah
    Why not the Jewish word or a Hindu deity ? Why does Zink feel it necessary to grovel and prostrate himself to the Muslims , and then FORCE the rest of the students to do so as well?
    w
    Why doesn’t Andrew Zink, the much inflated, &$#@ toxic little toad take himself down to the back of the school somewhere and pound his useless head on the pavement to Allah
    if he feels it necessary ? Just leave the others alone.

    • Bonnetierre

      He is promoting the one world religion, Chrislam.

      The false belief that God is the same for Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

      One step closer to Islamification of the USA.

      • Mitchell

        US is no closer to be Muslim than it is to being unwarlike.

        • Demsci

          War has been with us since Sargon (2300 BC) at least. and WAR is diminishing of late per capita casualties. America never fought against another democracy, almost never annexed another country (not since 1845). Only in the cold war it may have installed and supported tyrants, but the Soviets were arguably worse, and we now know that populations like those of Iraq seem to need dictators, so what would Muslims have America do?

          Obama, with all his faults, is very reluctant to start a war. and the bigoted Muslims are already chastising him for THAT, not being warlike, but cowardly, retreating. Bigoted, since they exclusively focus on criticizing America/ the West no matter what, but hardly ever praising it.

          But on the Western side, oh, there is no shortage of defenders of Islam, among the huge numbers of political correct citizens, the ones that voted for Obama.

          It is of big comfort for me that the Muslims never seem to show much appreciation for, seem to be oblivious of, fully halve of Western population that is political correct and deferential to Islam.

  • Your Friend Clem

    Well Andrew, as a president your just as worthless as the creep in the white house.

  • willynilly

    the woman holding the sign spelled school wrong wtf? shool is not school. so sick of this crap.

    • joker

      Well, this woman needs to go to school! Indeed a little bit disturbing people like her get the message across. But still the same message school or shool!

  • Catwoman

    That’s disgusting, blasphemy. What is wrong with people? Islam is a satanic cult, that’s it. How can anyone not see that.

    • John Lockwood

      Christianity is a satanic cult in the same way Islam is. It is all fictional BS, and the only difference is that here in America, the wanna-be Christians, are our version of the Taliban.

  • Attention, Infidels!

    Remove your children from our public education system.

  • FANGIT_A

    GOD BLESS AMERICA….

  • FANGIT_A

    HOW IS HE GONNA FELT IF THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IS WRITTEN IN JEW?
    WELL IF HIS MAD SO GO BACK TO ENGLISH WERE IT BELONG…

  • Prinz Eugen

    Read the Old and New Testaments, then the unholy quran — clearly the laws and demands of the Creator and the coppy-cat moon idol (allah) are not th3e same. Therefore, allah is NOT identical with the biblical Creator. Note, our founding papers mention the Creator — but not allah!

    allah’s name first came up when it was determined that an end to islamic piracy and terror in the Mediterranean must be halted. Now a renewed islamic caliphate crusade is underway!

    sultan Barry Sotero is in cahoots with the jihadists — time for the GOP in congress
    to develop a backbone and OPPOSE the islamo-marxist dictator BEFORE he adds sharia-law to his rapsheet!

    islam needs to be dealt with — WW II fashion — with unconditional surrender!

    • Dr. Doomsday

      Where is Curtis LeMay when you need him?

    • John Lockwood

      Said the most uninformed “Biblical scholar” ever.

  • Mitchell

    When I go to Islamic forums the hate and bigotry, calls for murder, calls for a religious theocracy in the U.S. seems to generally come from right-wing Christians. I also find it weird that ISIS is fighting Iran, Syria, Iraq, Kurdish forces, Christian & Muslim Nigeria, with little help from the West but ISIS fighters can depend on Israeli medical treatment if need be, but are outed by Palestinians. Hmmmmm….

    • joker

      Mitchell I have said it already above, please do us a favour and seek for a shrink or the nearest cliff….and jump. Insallah!

  • disqus_HlH4Faibhw

    Hmmmm….interesting how it was so easy for “foreign language week” to decide to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in Arabic.

    How come no one thought of reciting it in Hebrew….one nation under Ha’Shem? And in New York of all places??? Aren’t there a SIGNIFICANT population of Jews there???

    And some smart-ass student decided to yank everyone’s chain with that garbage post-911. Upon admitting that he “knew exactly what would happen”, maybe someone ought to keep an eye out for him….remember – they weren’t radical before they were.

  • drsmith123

    this would never happen back in the sixties. there should be riots in the streets every day.

  • iprazhm

    We need to play cowboys and muslims…

  • No Quarter

    In 1954, at President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s urging, the Congress legislated that “under God” be added, making the pledge read: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Lets remove “god” and go back to the original POA. We can not have a republic with liberty and justice for all when you mix religion in to it. No religion is about liberty and justice, they are all about control of one’s life on every level. Also, allah, means god, but not the universally accepted Christian/Jewish god. Their god is the moon god. Why didn’t they recite it in an African click language or in Irish??? Public schools are forcing islam on children. I am so glad they revolted. They should create a shit storm over this and fire the entire staff of that school. islam=death, submit or die. Plain and simple. P S Eddy I like your easter bunny.

  • Pale Rider

    Do not fear the Muslims for the Lord your God is going to punish them such as they have never heard!!!!!!

  • John Lockwood

    American exceptionalism is BS. This article and the actions of this school prove just that. Exceptional means not feeling threatened by the actions of others, especially when they are not threatening actions. Exceptional means being strong and competent enough, to accept, work and interact with all. Exceptional means not acting like a pussy, letting non-important stuff impact your existence. America is a great country, inhabited by many good people, and a handful of idiots, with voices and platforms. Geller is just one of many who have no clue as to what exceptionalism means, and how our country worked, works, and needs to go.

  • Tzione
  • ordinary american

    Will these bastrds have the Pledge recited in Hebrew?