[ April 24, 2024 ]
Here's a comment left at Atlas that reflects much of what has been posted in the Rally of Remembrance comments section:
Like Tyler, I attended both demonstrations, though I stayed at the pro-mosque
demonstration till it ended, which led to my very late arrival at Geller's
rally.Story continues below advertisementTyler's estimates of pro-mosque crowd size and the area the crowd
filled are exactly the estimates I had intended to supply.
The crowd,
however, had a character worse than disheartening. Virtually every speaker
suggested — at a demonstration aimed at peace — the only way to beat the
"racists and bigots" was with violence. Some made oblique suggestions. Others
were direct. One emcee, a black woman who introduced some speakers, channled
Malcolm X, calling out "by any means necessary." Another chant that was repeated
several times was "No Justice, No Peace."At a peace rally?
Meanwhile, apparently a pro-palestinian group functioned as the chief
organizing force of that rally.Despite the incessant Israel bashing,
there was a more disturbing tone and subtext to the rhetoric — which was mostly
old tired revolutionary claptrap from the last 40 years. I got the feeling that
more than anything else, the crowd supporting the mosque most wanted to go
around the corner in street-gang form and kick the crap out of a few people at
the anti-mosque rally. The crowd was seething, driven by an animus that was
close to blood lust.For some weird reason these goofy American lefties
think they have a special place in the eyes of islam. As if they would escape
life in the dhimmitude if they were living in muslim
territory.Meanwhile, as others have said, it was tough to get into the
Remembrance Rally. The cops, I think, knew nothing about how to find an entry
point. I've had this experience for years at any public NYC event attracting
large outdoor crowds. If you ask a cop for directions, he gives you an answer
that gets you out of his hair. That's it.In fact, after getting bad
directions a couple of times, I went to a cop standing at a crowd barrier a
block west of the rally and told him that every direction I'd been given had led
to dead ends, so could I just slip in here? He actually asked me why I wanted to
get in. That surprised me. I said, to hear the speakers. He let me in and that
was that.
And Tyler's observations:
I attended both rallies, and witnessed the events at their maximum capacity.
Without a doubt, the pro-mosque event was about 1/6th, maybe 1/10th, the size of
Geller's event.Let us simply analyze the areas occupied by each group –
it really isn't that difficult, as each group occupied an obviously differing
size in area:pro mosque rally: Stretched from Park to Warren along the
Eastern sidewalk of City Hall Park. Furthmore, these groups tended to constantly
circle the barricaded area, exaggerating their presence, but I will disregard
that fact.The sidewalk along the park is approximately 25 feet wide. A
Standard Manhattan block is approximately 260 feet by 900 feet. We can then
assign 4 square feet per person. Knowing the the pro-mosque event stretched from
Park Pl. to Warren Street, we can then dictate: 260 feet per block x 2 blocks x
25 feet wide divided by 4 square feet per person = 3,250 people…This doesn't
take into account the fact that many people continuously circled the area
creating an illusion of more people, nor does it account for the massive holes
in the crowd resulting from hippy drum circles, indian powwows, buddhist
chanting groups, and tents. Therefore, this estimate is quite
generous.Rally of Remembrance:Stretched from Park Pl to Reade along W
Broadway, and encompassed the entire width of the street – at 4 lanes wide, and
12 feet per lane, this equals 48 feet wide. 260 feet per block x 4 blocks x 48
feet wide and 4 square feet per person = 12,480 people. This doesn't take into
account people along the periphery at each intersection who couldn't find space
in the main area. Furthermore, this group stood still, shoulder to shoulder,
rather than constantly moving about, and presents a more accurate
representation.Thusly, the Rally of Remembrance had AT LEAST 4 times as
many people.—
Furthermore, I can tell you that a news
helicopter did hover over the area for nearly an hour – that there are no
published aerial photos is troubling. They probably spent all their time
photographing the ENTIRE crowd of 40 "9/11 Troofers" at the plaza on W. Broadway
and Barclay…or were distracted by a kitty cat.I can also vouch for
people claiming the police officers seemed to purposely mislead people, sending
them in the wrong direction, or pretending to be unaware of alternate events in
the area, since I was personally was told to walk in 3 different directions to
get to Geller's rally
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13 Comments
13 years ago
There was demonstration against burning of Quran but the 18 killings reported were due to our own struggle for separation with India. We have been fighting for that for the last 63 years. During past two months the number of killings has gone upto 87 with hundred injured due to live bullets on unarmed protestors.
13 years ago
I wonder if there was a subway station or two inside of the “Geller” zone. If so, you probably could have simply caught the subway into the zone, and exited the station.
13 years ago
Pamela,
Admire your courage – but, I have a different take on this media shutout and distortion in the MSM
Irrespective of what the MSM does or the putrid slant that Geraldo decides to give your presence on Fox – you have already won!!
It might not look so yet – but you have.
A sample of what is happening:
– every action and phrase of the Rauf is being scrutinized. Now, his buddies and associations are being put under the scanner. Of course, its another matter, that the Imam is his own worst enemy – every time he opens his mouth, he says something stupid.
– many of our thought leaders have had to comment on this issue (in articles, interviews and blogs) – some of them will take pot shots at you, but they have to force the issue in front of their audiences (even if they distort it). People are not stupid – they will hear different views.
– 40,000 people showed up for the demonstration – I would assume an order of magnitude more supporters cheered you from afar – these people will affect another large multiple. Indirectly you’re reaching tens of millions (at least). The message is getting through.
– people who visit blogs and take the trouble to go beyond MSM; this section of people are taking the trouble to comment on this issue in large numbers – 16000 comments on a single Imam Rauf article on yahoo – that’s a lot of surfers taking the time to go beyond taking a glance through the article and actually typing up a comment.
– the mosque issue is now being discussed in most other large countries with reasonable sized Muslim populations – from India to Indonesia – irrespective of the focus of the discussion. Who knew about Cordoba or even about victory mosques before this – people (non-muslims) will take another look at these issues. You made this happen.
– Here at home, major politicians (and ex politicians) of national stature have felt the need to comment on it. Consider Pelosi – like her or not, she is one of the shrewdest politicians we have in our midst – and she understood right away, that she had to take a stand on the issue. Its another matter that in the long run, her stand will make her look foolish in front of a national audience (although not here in California). Obama and many of our visible leaders have had to take a stand – irrespective of the stand they take – the issue has been nationalized.
– yes, CNN gives a positive spin to Imam Rauf – but, they had to put him in front of us – and right on cue, the nitwit made a “appease us Muslims, or we’ll have to kill you” comment – the audience, did not miss it.
Most probably, Imam will be under pressure to “rectify” the situation well before our November polls, but its too late – as an example, there are about half a dozen articles on the white-washed myths around Cordoba itself.
The next person building an “iconic” mosque anywhere in the western world will face the same scrutiny.
This battle is won – the war is still to be waged.
13 years ago
In this era of blog ,we easily get nice & updated information for research purposes… I’d definitely appreciate the work of the said blog owner… Thanks
13 years ago
I reckon its the other way around, Mush. Pakistanis burning and raping Christians and Hindus, stealing their land:
http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2010/09/13/muslims-attack-hindus-in-india-part-i/
You are a liar!
13 years ago
I agree with Ajack: your presence is felt not only in the USA but here in the UK and increasingly in Europe!
13 years ago
Mass graves of Hindus found in Kashmir:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfcbAfdOV7Q&feature=youtu.be
13 years ago
Pamela I just love you!!
On another note, perhaps next time you want to hold a rally such as this successful one (!!!), you might want to come over and get some tips from our great city, Montreal, where we hold the Montreal Jazz Festival annually. The organizers have become “experts” at crowd control and hold outdoor events with up to 250,000 people. The fluidity of circulating attendees is just beautiful!. Not to mention the well instructed volunteers who man checkpoints and give excellent directions. The cops barely have to do any work, but do enjoy the music.
Good continuation to you Pamela, and all Americans with common sense! I love America! God Bless America!
13 years ago
Even here in non-muslim infested Hong Kong (Chinese people aren’t mentioned in the koran as far as I know so it’s not so attractive to subjugate them SO FAR) the biggest English language newspaper reported on the two demos in a biased way: The photo of the pro-mosque group showed young and beautiful people smiling, whereas the other one whose caption was something like “Anti-mosque activists come out in force” showed an older and not so beautiful woman haranguing some beautiful young people in an un-flattering way.
So yeah, Pamela, you have your work cut out with the world press. But you’re doing all right and I admire you greatly. Meanwhile I try to warn Hong Kong people about what’s going on in the rest of the world. I rely on your tireless effort to inform and advise.
13 years ago
Wonderful insights…
and this is very astute:”This battle is won – the war is still to be waged.”
To win this war, I feel the website by Citizen Warrior is a crucial piece of the puzzle:
“Push Them To Read The Quran”
“…Non-Muslims need to read this book. Non-Muslims need to be educated about Islam. A lot of the Quran is devoted to how Muslims should deal with non-Muslims…”
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2009/05/push-them-to-read-quran.html
and this: An Abridged Koran http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2008/12/abridged-koran.html
I have no connection with the website myself. I only started reading it a few days ago.
Thank you Pamela for everything you have done. You are a true patriot. And your love of freedom is even broader than patriotism, it is rooted in freedom for all. When freedom is lost, oppression begins, by someone. The oppressed would include women, dhimmis, infidels, slaves, etc
Some of the founding thoughts of freedom were inspired by St.Thomas Aquinas in his writings on Natural law:
“…Aquinas says that the fundamental principle of the natural law is that good is to be done and evil avoided…”
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/natural-law-ethics/
Love that: Good is to be done and evil avoided.
Go Pamela! You are so on it!
13 years ago
In response to that video, in which he says to read the Koran every day:
“…There are 245 verses in the Quran that could be considered “positive verses” about non-Muslims. Every single one of those verses have been abrogated by later, negative verses about non-Muslims. Not one positive verse about non-Muslims is left.
In contrast, there are 527 verses of intolerance toward non-Muslims, and 109 verses specifically advocating violence towards non-Muslims. Not one of these verses has been abrogated…”
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/09/what-non-muslims-dont-like-about-islam.html
So – Yes – read the Koran – but read ALL of it…read it and weep:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2009/05/push-them-to-read-quran.html
13 years ago
The imam preaches some good moderation – but it is extremely ironic that he should mention the Jews in Germany several times in a sympathetic light – as though the Muslim are now similarly oppressed.He needs to read his history. Again read it and weep:
“The Mufti of Jerusalem: Architect of the Holocaust”
http://bigjournalism.com/pgeller/2010/02/07/the-mufti-of-jerusalem-architect-of-the-holocaust/
He picks and chooses his verses in the Koran to follow only the early peaceful verses…but the Islamic supremacist knows no such restraint. Therein lies the rub. He says let us all be peacemakers, and in that I agree…First scrub the Koran of its command to kill me, or give permission to rape me, or enslave me, thank you very much. I’ll be more inclined to feel he speaks for all…I would be more inclined to feel perhaps someday it could be a religion of peace.
There is a cord in more enlightened humans who resonate with this sentiment, below. Perhaps this western imam should simply change brands to one that does not preach that pesky, nasty violence rape and murder and conquest.
A Simple Prayer…
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon:
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope
where there is darkness, light
where there is sadness, joy
O divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.
13 years ago
FYI – the above is also called the Prayer of St. Francis
